Post by dj on Sept 12, 2010 16:53:53 GMT -5
For the sake of discussion:
What's the difference between "judeo-christian" and "islamo-christian?"
I understand of course that Christianity's roots are embedded in Judaism, directly descending from it. But technically, Islam is rooted in Judaism too. Islam's messengers before Mohammed include Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus.
What is interesting in our current political discourse is in how fervently Jesus is rejected in Judaism, and yet revered in Islam.
(Steering off course for a second, for those who believe that Muslims are commanded to kill or convert the infidels, which itself is not a reasonably true belief, I would further suggest looking into whom Muslims consider to be "infidels." Infidels in the Quran are not simply non-Muslims, but rather "unbelievers," more specifically those who do not even believe in God. Muslims call Christians and Jews "people of the book" because they believe in the one god creator of all, thus they are not unbelievers. Most Islamic scholars will explain that believers in the one god, Christians and Jews, are considered "pure" in Islam and thus are not infidels. Non-believers are the native Africans and animists of the arab lands who rejected God (Allah) completely. This can be discussed further at length, but to summarize I think any argument that begins with the canard that Islam states "infidels are to be converted or killed" is getting off on the wrong foot.)
With that said, it might be interesting to know that Islam considers Jesus to be one of the greatest of all messengers on God's will and authority. While the Quran does not accept Jesus to be God, it does however consider Jesus to be conceived divinely by God of the Virgin mother Mary. The Quran honors Mary as chosen by God and informed by the Angel Gabriel that she is to bring God's messenger to earth by the honor of God the creator, and as in Christian New Testament writing, she accepts this task and honor. The Quran also describes Jesus as having been raised directly to heaven alive. Born not of an earthly father and resurrected to everlasting life in heaven with God. Note that this is all in the Quran.
If one were to suggest that all Muslims believe every word of the Quran, then one can not make the simplistic suggestion that the Quran considers Christians, or Jews, to be "unbelievers."
Fundamentalism in any religion is contradictory, because all religions have holy verses which taken out of context or out of the culture and time in which they were written, can seem to contradict or contravene each other.
So it is impossible for any fundamentalist of any religion to hold the beliefs they hold without casting aside some certain contradictions inherent in the text. Al Qaida and other terrorist fundamentalists believe a certain version of their "religion" which the vast majority do NOT subscribe to.
Those who believe that most Muslims want to kill all Christians and Jews or convert the world to Islam, because supposedly the Quran compells them to, must first assume that most Muslims reject out of hand all the verses which glorify Jesus's role in the world and Judaism's messengers from god. They must also assume that most Muslims reject the verses that to kill one innocent person is to kill all mankind, while to keep alive any innocent people is save all mankind. There are fundamentalist factions in Islam who believe the Infidels are all who disbelieve that Muhammed was God's prophet; but these factions are in the minority. Again, they are fundamentalists because they take verses in the Quran which deal specifically with moments in time when Arab polytheists, animists, and atheists were warring with Islam, and they apply those verses to the modern political world in which we live. The fact that such fundamentalists, while dangerous and antagonistic, are a small minority, can not be emphasized enough.
Currently the wars of terror against the west are political, not religious. The Islamic extremists enacting terrorism against the west are USING religion as a catalyst to galvanize emotional and deadly forces against political targets.
Western Muslims, as I have been saying ad infinitum, are not driven by the same anti-Western message of wahabbi fundamentalist Islamic groups. They are far more in tune culturally with Western values and the generally innocuous message of quietude and godly reverence which is inherent in the Quran. In the same way that our modern values reject the stoning of thieves and adulterers of the old testament, and the slaying of all women and children and animals of vanquished foes in the same texts, even the slaying of idolaters which Moses laid down as law, most modern Muslims in the United States live happily in the peace and freedom of our secular constitutional republic and attempt to live the truly holy principles of their religious texts, as much as modern Christians do the same from their Bible.
Going back to my original question... isn't it interesting that the Jewish faith completely rejects Jesus as the son of God or as God, many Jews usually reject the very existence of the man Jesus of Nazareth as a first and second century fabrication. At the same time, as noted above, the Quran places Jesus of Nazareth in a truly divine position and reveres him as a special messenger of God's word.
So, is the U.S. really Judeo-Christian or Islamo-Christian? I know the question may appear absurd on its face, but, well, it does get your attention does it not?
What's the difference between "judeo-christian" and "islamo-christian?"
I understand of course that Christianity's roots are embedded in Judaism, directly descending from it. But technically, Islam is rooted in Judaism too. Islam's messengers before Mohammed include Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus.
What is interesting in our current political discourse is in how fervently Jesus is rejected in Judaism, and yet revered in Islam.
(Steering off course for a second, for those who believe that Muslims are commanded to kill or convert the infidels, which itself is not a reasonably true belief, I would further suggest looking into whom Muslims consider to be "infidels." Infidels in the Quran are not simply non-Muslims, but rather "unbelievers," more specifically those who do not even believe in God. Muslims call Christians and Jews "people of the book" because they believe in the one god creator of all, thus they are not unbelievers. Most Islamic scholars will explain that believers in the one god, Christians and Jews, are considered "pure" in Islam and thus are not infidels. Non-believers are the native Africans and animists of the arab lands who rejected God (Allah) completely. This can be discussed further at length, but to summarize I think any argument that begins with the canard that Islam states "infidels are to be converted or killed" is getting off on the wrong foot.)
With that said, it might be interesting to know that Islam considers Jesus to be one of the greatest of all messengers on God's will and authority. While the Quran does not accept Jesus to be God, it does however consider Jesus to be conceived divinely by God of the Virgin mother Mary. The Quran honors Mary as chosen by God and informed by the Angel Gabriel that she is to bring God's messenger to earth by the honor of God the creator, and as in Christian New Testament writing, she accepts this task and honor. The Quran also describes Jesus as having been raised directly to heaven alive. Born not of an earthly father and resurrected to everlasting life in heaven with God. Note that this is all in the Quran.
If one were to suggest that all Muslims believe every word of the Quran, then one can not make the simplistic suggestion that the Quran considers Christians, or Jews, to be "unbelievers."
Fundamentalism in any religion is contradictory, because all religions have holy verses which taken out of context or out of the culture and time in which they were written, can seem to contradict or contravene each other.
So it is impossible for any fundamentalist of any religion to hold the beliefs they hold without casting aside some certain contradictions inherent in the text. Al Qaida and other terrorist fundamentalists believe a certain version of their "religion" which the vast majority do NOT subscribe to.
Those who believe that most Muslims want to kill all Christians and Jews or convert the world to Islam, because supposedly the Quran compells them to, must first assume that most Muslims reject out of hand all the verses which glorify Jesus's role in the world and Judaism's messengers from god. They must also assume that most Muslims reject the verses that to kill one innocent person is to kill all mankind, while to keep alive any innocent people is save all mankind. There are fundamentalist factions in Islam who believe the Infidels are all who disbelieve that Muhammed was God's prophet; but these factions are in the minority. Again, they are fundamentalists because they take verses in the Quran which deal specifically with moments in time when Arab polytheists, animists, and atheists were warring with Islam, and they apply those verses to the modern political world in which we live. The fact that such fundamentalists, while dangerous and antagonistic, are a small minority, can not be emphasized enough.
Currently the wars of terror against the west are political, not religious. The Islamic extremists enacting terrorism against the west are USING religion as a catalyst to galvanize emotional and deadly forces against political targets.
Western Muslims, as I have been saying ad infinitum, are not driven by the same anti-Western message of wahabbi fundamentalist Islamic groups. They are far more in tune culturally with Western values and the generally innocuous message of quietude and godly reverence which is inherent in the Quran. In the same way that our modern values reject the stoning of thieves and adulterers of the old testament, and the slaying of all women and children and animals of vanquished foes in the same texts, even the slaying of idolaters which Moses laid down as law, most modern Muslims in the United States live happily in the peace and freedom of our secular constitutional republic and attempt to live the truly holy principles of their religious texts, as much as modern Christians do the same from their Bible.
Going back to my original question... isn't it interesting that the Jewish faith completely rejects Jesus as the son of God or as God, many Jews usually reject the very existence of the man Jesus of Nazareth as a first and second century fabrication. At the same time, as noted above, the Quran places Jesus of Nazareth in a truly divine position and reveres him as a special messenger of God's word.
So, is the U.S. really Judeo-Christian or Islamo-Christian? I know the question may appear absurd on its face, but, well, it does get your attention does it not?
