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Post by EscapeHatch on Sept 14, 2010 13:15:17 GMT -5
When I read the passages about killing infidels, it struck me that what was missing was a specific directive to kill Christians. There was an evolution of Mohammed's feelings about Christians and Jews.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Sept 14, 2010 13:19:39 GMT -5
Will a a prayer rug fit on your couch? And would you really stop everything, even watching football to face Mecca?
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Post by lou on Sept 14, 2010 14:16:49 GMT -5
Okay. So this small-time pastor in Florida wants to burn copies of the Koran on the upcoming 9/11 anniversary. I personally would not take part in that just like I would not burn, stomp on, or in any other way publicly deface or damage anyone's religious symbols or the U.S. flag, or any other nation's flag. BUT I really question the public involvement and condemnation by the White House, the Pentagon, the State Department, and the Justice Department, and their public encouragement for Americans to speak out against this pastor. "We think that these are provocative acts," Crowley said. "We would like to see more Americans stand up and say that this is inconsistent with our American values; in fact, these actions themselves are un-American." I am tempted to encourage this pastor to say, "Hey, this is my First Amendment right, even though it might not be the right thing to do. I'll reconsider when the Imam and developers of the ground zero mosque can say the same thing. Until then, I can be as stubborn and insensitive as they are being." I am not buying that this is putting our troops and Americans in more danger. They are always in danger from the crazies over there. This is just another excuse to act the way they always will. Well said! |
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Post by lou on Sept 14, 2010 14:32:49 GMT -5
Fortunately that idiot minister did not burn any Qurans. He received his 15 minutes of fame! Now we are probably going to be treated to a new moron endeavoring to "out-do" this minister's stupidity! The only benefit from his lunacy was the dialog which engaged numerous Americans and the general consensus was "it is wrong to burn any holy book (or so described)!" I think this belief beyond anything demonstrates the tolerance most Americans have and believe.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Sept 14, 2010 15:13:45 GMT -5
I haven't commented on this part of Nikki's post because I have been tossing it around and around in my head since she said it. Is it true? Is she right?
The crazies will be crazies. Will they become so angry that they will kill more people? Well, seems like they are trying that anyway. Will they kill people twice, three times, or more? I don't think one can do that.
I think Nikki is right.
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Post by animal on Sept 14, 2010 15:17:02 GMT -5
I knew guys back in the old days that would get loaded and want to fight... they didnt care who with, they just looked for an excuse, any excuse... then jump at the chance. I see no difference with these people... they just keep finding excuses.
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Post by Turk on Sept 14, 2010 15:19:14 GMT -5
Will a a prayer rug fit on your couch? And would you really stop everything, even watching football to face Mecca? JD doesn't watch football, it's against his religion.  |
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Post by EscapeHatch on Sept 14, 2010 15:27:38 GMT -5
]JD doesn't watch football, it's against his religion. He could if he turned his rug around... ;D |
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Post by Turk on Sept 14, 2010 15:45:31 GMT -5
I should add: Whatever the explanation for attempting to talk these idiots out of burning holy books, I still don't agree that courts should impose bans on such behavior. The above story is from South Africa. In America any idiot can burn Bibles, Qurans, flags, effigies. I don't think I willing to say there's nothing disingenuous but I do agree that burning the bible, koran or any other book that is important to a religious group is wrong. Part of my makeup is to swear but I do avoid using the phrase "God Damn" because it is offensive to many Christians, same kind of logic with book burning. The media and world would not go nuts over the story if it were bible burning. |
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Post by Turk on Sept 14, 2010 15:49:26 GMT -5
I haven't commented on this part of Nikki's post because I have been tossing it around and around in my head since she said it. Is it true? Is she right? The crazies will be crazies. Will they become so angry that they will kill more people? Well, seems like they are trying that anyway. Will they kill people twice, three times, or more? I don't think one can do that. I think Nikki is right. I'll second that. |
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Post by Jack on Sept 14, 2010 17:09:45 GMT -5
I haven't commented on this part of Nikki's post because I have been tossing it around and around in my head since she said it. Is it true? Is she right? The crazies will be crazies. Will they become so angry that they will kill more people? Well, seems like they are trying that anyway. Will they kill people twice, three times, or more? I don't think one can do that. I think Nikki is right. I'll second that. Me too!  |
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Post by dj on Sept 14, 2010 18:58:16 GMT -5
The crazies will be crazies. Will they become so angry that they will kill more people? Well, seems like they are trying that anyway. Will they kill people twice, three times, or more? I don't think one can do that. My take is this: The crazies can't get crazier, no. Like, leftist moonbeamers can't get LESS likely to vote for a Republican. Tea Partiers can't get MORE likely to vote against a super-liberal. However, a general overall misperception about American intolerance and hate can grow upon itself, and this affects the average Muslim everywhere in the world. Remember, when you have extremists saying the west is the great satan and the west is out to kill all muslims and America is AT WAR with ISLAM, the WORST thing for America to do is verify all that misinformation with crazies having Quran bonfires and massive demonstrations over EVERY mosque project in the U.S. and on and on. The way to neutralize fear and hate toward the west is to PROVE the extremists are just making shit up. Prove that we embrace all religious faiths, that we are a peaceful society with a mosque at one end of the block and a catholic rch at the other, and a synagogue around the corner. This is why BOTH Bush and Obama have gone to great lengths to express the message that we are NOT at war with Islam. That we have millions of Muslims living the American dream in the U.S. without interference, that American Muslims in American are not discriminated against. That all faiths co-exist whenever you have a free society which does not endorse or support any one religion or religious belief over another. By reinforcing this reality, we tell the rest of the world that intolerance is both unnecessary and unfruitful. We essentially indict their way of doing things. However, when we sink to their level, it only gets worse and it gets worse fast. When fear and distrust goes on too long it becomes generational, it becomes ingrained in the culture, and yes, it puts out troops and our traveling civilians in more danger, for many years. It doesn't make things better, that's for sure. |
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Post by dj on Sept 14, 2010 19:01:42 GMT -5
When I read the passages about killing infidels, it struck me that what was missing was a specific directive to kill Christians. There was an evolution of Mohammed's feelings about Christians and Jews. I'll add, or rather, re-iterate, that references to "infidel" or "un-believer" in the Quran refer to the animists and polytheists who the Arab peoples were in perpetual war with at the time of the writings. It literally means people who do not believe in God/Allah. It does NOT mean the peoples with whom the Muslims share a common religious heritage, Jews and Christians, who they refer to as "people of the book" or "people of the holy book." The idea of westerners, Christians and Jews, being "infidels" is a FABRICATION of the terrorists and fundamentalists and is political. It is NOT religiously correct according to the Quran. |
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Post by EscapeHatch on Sept 14, 2010 20:56:14 GMT -5
DJ, are you aware of Mohammed's change of opinion about Christians and Jews during his life time? Events that transpired were unfortunate. No doubt. But, there was a change in how he thought about C's and J's.
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Post by Tired in CV on Sept 15, 2010 1:17:58 GMT -5
Fortunately that idiot minister did not burn any Qurans. He received his 15 minutes of fame! Now we are probably going to be treated to a new moron endeavoring to "out-do" this minister's stupidity! The only benefit from his lunacy was the dialog which engaged numerous Americans and the general consensus was "it is wrong to burn any holy book (or so described)!" I think this belief beyond anything demonstrates the tolerance most Americans have and believe. Well, the burning didn't take place but it still leave blood on the hands of the minister! Fortunately it is not the blood of a U.S. citizen but the blood of protestors in Afghanistan, shot by their own police. Any true minister would surely have trouble knowing that their actions resulted in the death of another person. Now, another rch in Kansas has stated they plan to burn the Koran in the near future. |
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