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Post by animal on Dec 14, 2009 19:52:07 GMT -5
Yep.. I was just gonna say that.... if the govt only let christians take xmas day off (which I promote constantly), you would have converts all over the place.
I do think the feds should stay out of the states business reguarding religious stuff... and the states stay out of the city business and so on, down to the smallest village. Let those people living there decide.
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Post by johng on Dec 14, 2009 20:34:52 GMT -5
Religion aside, This is the most interesting sampling of people I have ever had the pleasure of association!
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Post by Turk on Dec 14, 2009 20:43:04 GMT -5
Religion aside, This is the most interesting sampling of people I have ever had the pleasure of association! God bless you my son  |
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Post by dj on Dec 14, 2009 21:16:55 GMT -5
I am not sure why one has to think that the "Intertwining of Government and Religion" necessarily is unique to USA? It can't be "unique to the USA" because intertwining of government and religion is uniquely NOT a characteristic of the USA. Our government structure is secular. It is this separation of rch and state which is unique to the USA. |
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Post by Turk on Dec 14, 2009 22:22:09 GMT -5
I am not sure why one has to think that the "Intertwining of Government and Religion" necessarily is unique to USA? It can't be "unique to the USA" because intertwining of government and religion is uniquely NOT a characteristic of the USA. Our government structure is secular. It is this separation of rch and state which is unique to the USA. Well dj the stars must be aligned I can’t find anything wrong in your post.  |
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Post by animal on Dec 14, 2009 22:34:24 GMT -5
well, the term "seperation of rch and state" has been baspersonized from its origional intent... origionally, the thought was to keep the running of the govt seperate from any religious connotations while forbidding the govt from dictating any one religion. Over the last 30 or so years, the meaning has been pulled like it is taffy until its meaning is cooky now.
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Post by dolphie on Dec 14, 2009 22:47:43 GMT -5
That is not really accurate. This country has had strong judeo-christian roots since its inception. What the USA has been careful about is in not allowing the government to become a religious body - as had occurred in Islamic countries or during the era when the King was at odds with the Catholic rch over his divorce and thus created the rch of England or when the Catholic rch was invaded with Family members of the Monarchs into rch religious positions. We have religion woven throughout our very fabric. Many seals, etc, contain religious icons. The 10 commandments are the basis of the laws of our land. Christmas is widely practiced here. Easter is widely practiced here. Both involve extended time off from school and work. Our monies, etc, have In God we Trust and other religious verbiage. This does not mean that Buddhists are not welcome, or Taoists, or Native Americans or ... People are not persecuted for their belief systems... Well - they used to not be. The Christians are currently quite persecuted as other belief systems are allowed special privileges that Christians would not have asked for nor have they been allowed. seems like a slippery sloap to me. the government should have nothing to do with religion. Even though our country had it interwoven as you state, it should not go any further or else we could be headed like the other countries you described IMO. Government jobs do not recognize easter as a holliday, and there could be a case for the ACLU about christmas. from the history of the world, religion and government is always a recipe for tyrany and war if not kept in check. Im glad to see other religions grow in our country because we are the greatest country on earth by being a melting pot of cultures. I know this is a strong subject and dear to many, Im just keeping it in perspective when it comes to government. There are those in this country that have used religion for bad like the branch dividians, the rest have used it for good, but politics distorts and excludes people when mixed with religion. why is it so hard to keep the two seperate? the question of the ages. Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances ============================= Read the 1st Amendment before making statements as you did. |
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Post by Turk on Dec 14, 2009 22:55:55 GMT -5
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Post by dolphie on Dec 14, 2009 22:59:48 GMT -5
 I just caught it. "Slippery Sloap" is that a sloppy slope? Shhhhhhhhhhh he was thinking about the gays on the other thread, soap and slipping.... *GRIN* |
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Post by animal on Dec 14, 2009 23:06:28 GMT -5
whoops.. I dropped the soap... Turk, can ya get that for me before CEM notices?
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Post by dolphie on Dec 15, 2009 0:33:15 GMT -5
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Post by johng on Dec 15, 2009 15:46:49 GMT -5
Must we 'Drop the Soap" in the Religion thread so near Christmas, I mean come on there has to be some boundaries - Ah fogetaboudit!
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Post by dolphie on Dec 15, 2009 15:58:20 GMT -5
Must we 'Drop the Soap" in the Religion thread so near Christmas, I mean come on there has to be some boundaries - Ah fogetaboudit! spoken like the true cultural cootie man you be! |
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Post by Turk on Dec 15, 2009 16:47:07 GMT -5
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Post by EscapeHatch on Dec 15, 2009 19:28:38 GMT -5
... seems like a slippery sloap to me. the government should have nothing to do with religion. Even though our country had it interwoven as you state, it should not go any further or else we could be headed like the other countries you described IMO. Government jobs do not recognize easter as a holliday, and there could be a case for the ACLU about christmas. from the history of the world, religion and government is always a recipe for tyrany and war if not kept in check. Im glad to see other religions grow in our country because we are the greatest country on earth by being a melting pot of cultures. I know this is a strong subject and dear to many, Im just keeping it in perspective when it comes to government. There are those in this country that have used religion for bad like the branch dividians, the rest have used it for good, but politics distorts and excludes people when mixed with religion. why is it so hard to keep the two seperate? the question of the ages. Sistersarah, by in large, I agree with much of what you said. The separation between rch and state got a lot of people in trouble over the centuries. The Ottoman Empire, Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch trials, the Israeli/middle east conflicts- all due to religion being a driving force in government. There were the Religious Wars in France in the 1500's (Une foi, un loi, un roi), Northern Ireland, the Thirty Years War of the 17th century, Taipei Rebellion, and so on. Out of all the religions, one or another fought the other at least once, and some several times over the centuries and in all cases, the governments waged wars to advance their religious beliefs. The slippery slope thing, well, I may have a problem with that, but, only to a minor point. Having "In God We Trust" does not specify which God, whose God, or from which religion. I see no harm in that. To allow government employees to celebrate in their workplaces, just as can private citizens in theirs, what harm can there be in that? I don't think you advocate changing anything as it is right now. Am I correct? Easter and Christmas were celebrated long before the pilgrims landed on these shores. They both have pagan origins, one of which was to celebrate the winter solstice, since an exact date of the birth of Christ isn't known for certain. That we call that holiday Christmas bugs some people, but, it ought not bug anyone if we celebrate a day in the winter... for whatever reason. Easter, well, that only happens on a Sunday, just as Thanksgiving only happens on a Thursday. Easter was set on a Sunday. One was a holiday to give thanks to God for the blessings our nation was bestowed by God and never had a pagan origin. Shall we repeal what Abraham Lincoln set forth as a national holiday? Of course not. We like our Thanksgiving. Reasonable people can let people believe as they wish. A little allowance never hurt anyone. Is it too much of an indulgence to allow Christian holidays and exclude celebrations for other religions? Well, perhaps. But, do we really want to change things by declaring Christmas and Thanksgiving to be just secular holidays for the heck of it? Or, do we want to simply delete them off the calenders and not celebrate them at all? To what end? To pursue a pure adherence to the Constitution? I guess we could do that. I mean, it would be Constitutional. But, do we really want to do that? I am guessing that you think that we, as a nation, have certain holidays, various mottos that allow for the expression that is particular to one religion, Christianity, but, you don't want it to go any further in such a way that we might end up like so many nations throughout history that went to war over a belief. Sound right? |
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