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Post by nikki on Aug 24, 2010 21:32:45 GMT -5
So has DJ convinced y'all yet that if you are opposed to the ground zero mosque and this imam that you are just a bunch of fear-mongering, nonsensical, absurd, bigots who are just out to foster hate against the Muslims? Gosh, DJ, I am wondering how many sites you have lectured to, or are we just "special" bigots???  |
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Post by animal on Aug 24, 2010 22:02:36 GMT -5
Pardon my french, but I don't give a f@ck what people think of my opinion.
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Post by Turk on Aug 24, 2010 22:04:45 GMT -5
Pardon my french, but I don't give a f@ck what people think of my opinion.  I'll share that boat with ya |
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Post by Turk on Aug 24, 2010 22:07:00 GMT -5
but if you research it's really not French, they are not that bright considering there are about 100,000 words in the French language and over a million English words.
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Post by animal on Aug 24, 2010 22:22:49 GMT -5
well, oh respected one, I was watching my language in your house.....
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Post by dj on Aug 25, 2010 9:50:54 GMT -5
Pardon my french, but I don't give a f@ck what people think of my opinion. I'll share that boat with ya As I discussed with Hatch, I may not agree with various opinions here but I do respect them. We all have our experiences and no two of us will ever see the same thing the same way. If I ever actually concluded that someone is a nonsensical bigot I would tell them so. |
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Post by lou on Aug 25, 2010 15:26:38 GMT -5
Poor DJ has to rationalize his position regarding the Imam Rauf and the Mosque. It has become "just 7 nut jobs" and for this there must be no condemnation of Rauf and his Mosque! I was referencing the 7 nutjobs on the sidewalk in the CNN report Turk posted. I was contrasting it to the thousands of Muslims who have been attending the New York mosque in the same CNN report. Try to follow along, Lou.  That would be Hamas, not Hezbollah. And he didn't fail to conclude, he simply didn't want to comment. Actually New Yorkers in the neighborhood, those who are making the decision, have also not denied its location. It is A-OK, and a go, to them. This would be the Jews, Christians, and Muslims of the area. Yes, I did follow along, your contention was the "peace-loving" nature of American Muslims. Can you explain the CLERIC al-Awlaki? Colonel Nadal? Just to name 2, there are more, so how fierce was the condemnation of these two from the American imans? Apparently you have not kept up with Imam Rauf's pronouncements regarding Hezbollah AND Hamas; if this person wants to be a "bridge-maker," then, please, explain the "no comment" regarding these two worthy groups! Again I think you should review the statements from the neighborhood in which this mosque would be located, according to CBS and CNN it is more opposed than in favor of its location. As with all religions, symbolism is an integral component of the fabric that is that particular religion, and, Islam is no different. All the mosques that were constructed as a right and a rite of conquest became landmarks (Ibn Tulun, Samarra, Hagia Sophia just to name three) became important visual references to the might of Islam and the power of Islam. I would argue that this particular mosque would become just such a referent to Islam and its power. |
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Post by nikki on Aug 25, 2010 16:24:44 GMT -5
Mainstream Muslims are not building this mosque, an Imam with a questionable resume, to say the least, is. It is my firm belief that the vast majority of American Muslims do NOT want this mosque built. They know that it is not necessary, and they understand that it is hurtful and in-your-face. They do not wish to bring that negative attention on themselves and their faith.
As this Imam and his associates dig their heels in and are unwilling to even consider any compromise, it becomes more and more clear that there is another agenda here, and it certainly is not about healing and bridge-building.
This is, as other Muslims such as Dr. Jasser have noted, an act of "Fitna." The intention is provocation that they hope will be successful eventually in shutting down any speech that they deem critical of Islam. All you have to do is watch what the OIC is doing within the United Nations.
The condemnation of this mosque and center is not directed at Muslims as this Imam provocateur would like you to believe so that he and those like him can turn things around and label all of their opponents as discriminators and haters of Islam. His wife was already on "This Week" Sunday making the case that the opponents of this mosque are, in her words, "haters." Research and think!
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Post by EscapeHatch on Aug 25, 2010 19:20:51 GMT -5
I am quoting Nikki to point out some things that I think people that don't agree about the heartfelt feelings about the Mosque are missing. There are some cases where I personally am not sure, and address them, too, since there is a widespread belief that may or may not be based on truth. Mainstream Muslims are not building this mosque, an Imam with a questionable resume, to say the least, is. I am not sure I am ready to catagorize the imam in this way just yet. That is due to lack of research, not stubbornness. THIS is what I think people who object to the location of the building are really saying. I don't know what their hidden agenda is. If they didn't say it to my face, I wouldn't know. I do know that something can be read in action. This action, which seems In Your Face is what is objectionable to me. NOT THE FAITH or the millions that subscribe to it. Was there mention recently that there was a discussion, initiated by the imam, that another site was under consideration? Doesn't that indicate a willingness to remove one's face from another's? Did anyone else hear this? Where else have we seen this sort of thing go on recently in this country? I am not saying that this is their modus operendi, but, is it possible? And this is what perpetuates the clashes. No matter how sincerely one declares themselves to NOT be against Muslims, a claim of racism or some other name for intolerance will be levied. This is not unlike the illegal immigration issue. You WILL be singled out as a racist if you are AGAINST illegal immigration, no matter how rationally you form your argument. And let me say something about not being able to eloquently express one's self on any issue and how that gets turned into false accusations. If I say "Well, Concern it! I hate Illegal Aliens gittin in here and messin' ever'thin' up!", it is translated into "I hate Mexicans!" Well, "F" that. Look at the actions of those making their claim before countering with one. Whoa, now. Might that not work the other way around, too? |
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Post by lou on Aug 26, 2010 11:48:22 GMT -5
As I understand the Governor of NY, Patterson, was willing and able to set up a meeting to discuss an alternate location. So far neither party, neither the Iman nor the owner of the building in question were willing to even meet with the gov and discuss his suggestion.
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Post by dj on Aug 26, 2010 12:22:46 GMT -5
As I understand the Governor of NY, Patterson, was willing and able to set up a meeting to discuss an alternate location. So far neither party, neither the Iman nor the owner of the building in question were willing to even meet with the gov and discuss his suggestion. That's understandable. It would be an implicit acceptance of the formula which says the closer the mosque is to "ground zero" the more insulting it is, and the farther away from "ground zero" the more acceptable it is. The point, to supporters, is to overcome the connection between the terrorist usurping of Islam on 9/11, and the mainstream moderate practice of Islam in America, and in that neighborhood. The point being to re-establish a fruitful and constructive peaceful relationship between contemporary American Islam and the community wherein it dwells. In this case, that's right there in that neighborhood. You don't overcome misperceptions, and heal perceived wounds, by building the community center 5 miles from the actual community. If I were a part of the designing, funding, building, or managing of this mosque I would also ignore "offers" to find another location far away. It defeats the purpose. |
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Post by nikki on Aug 26, 2010 14:11:57 GMT -5
That is correct, Lou. They are not willing to bend at all. They do not care at all about the turmoil they are creating. They do not care about building bridges unless it is their way, period. That says a lot about who these people are. They are the "radical rabble rousers" that even Muslims do not like.
It is worth noting who is supporting this: A Hamas founder has spoken out, saying that it MUST be built, we must build mosques wherever we can. CAIR, an unindicted co-conspirator in the case against Hamas. Obama and the current State Department (P.J. Crowley) as part of their "Muslim Outreach," the ACLU -- Well, you get the picture.
And let's not forget how Michael Bloomberg has been so vociferous in his support -- who also appointed all the members of the planning commission board that unanimously voted to move forward with this building. Bloomberg even went so far as to state publicly that he was "ashamed" of his own constituents who overwhelmingly are against this mosque.
So why would they back down? Because the majority of New Yorkers and the rest of the country don't want it? And if anyone would or even could poll Muslims themselves, I would bet my life they do not want it either. But they know they do not have to fear that that poll will be taken. As I said, they do not care about building bridges and healing. That is NOT what this is about. It never was.
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Post by nikki on Aug 26, 2010 14:17:02 GMT -5
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Post by nikki on Aug 26, 2010 14:21:23 GMT -5
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Post by nikki on Aug 26, 2010 14:33:37 GMT -5
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