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Post by johng on Jun 18, 2009 13:04:57 GMT -5
Just note, Iran (the Region generally) is what happens when the separation of "rch and State" do not exist.
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Post by jackoliver on Jun 18, 2009 13:07:45 GMT -5
Just note, Iran (the Region generally) is what happens when the separation of "rch and State" do not exist. Very good Johng, I could not have said it better. Wasnt the US medling in Iran 30 years ago? Cant we stay out of other countries bussiness? There was no Weapons of Mass destruction by Iran back then. It's no wonder some countries have bad feeling towards us. Those countries dont forget thier history. We, the US , have got to learn to mind our own bussiness and only get involved over our REAL national security. I bet you OIL was involved back then,,,HMMMMMM, I see a pattern.
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Post by jdredd on Jun 18, 2009 13:13:31 GMT -5
"Separation of rch and State" is a Western concept, that has not been applicable in the Muslim world until recently (Turkey was the first, about 1918 I believe). In fact, I have argued that the "separation" is in fact somewhat of an illusion, even in the West. The reality is your religious beliefs dictate your political beliefs, and in fact I suspect it is often the other way around.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jun 18, 2009 13:44:00 GMT -5
Wasnt the US medling in Iran 30 years ago?
Cant we stay out of other countries bussiness? There was no Weapons of Mass destruction by Iran back then...
Stricktly speaking, JO, I guess it is accurate to say that Iran was not using WMD's 30 years ago. 21 years ago, however, Iraq used them on Kurdhish Iranians and pro-Iranian Kurds. Iran was never found to have used WMD's against Iraq, or anyone as far as I fan find. But, their not always subtle influence in Iraq is sort of a stink bomb in and of itself. But, this is kind of moot if in fact they are developing, or shopping for, nuclear weapon capability.
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CM
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Post by CM on Jun 18, 2009 16:45:42 GMT -5
From the front lines.
I just got of the phone with a couple of friends they have lived in Iran most of their lives. Both friends have family (mom, dad, brothers, sisters, etc.) still living in Iran. They speak with their families 3-4 times per day. Presently cell phone reception is very poor and all circuits are busy much of the time. They do not use email because it is self documenting and will be read by the government. When they speak on the phone it is in code, a code that families have developed over the last 30 years to communicate with relatives living in the west to circumvent government ears.
I’ll document the conversation as best I can.
CM - Should the US get involved?
Friend – Absolutely not, we do not want the US involved, the Iranian people love Americans but this is our issue and our fight for change and we are willing to die for it. Obama is doing the smart thing; the people DO NOT want US involvement of any kind. We do not want guns, aid or anything.
Note: DO NOT was repeated 3 or 4 times.
CM – How was the election rigged?
Friend - The election was not about good or bad, we disliked both candidates. The election was about fairness and it was far from fair. The vote count would change in other words the count should increment and mostly did then suddenly the count would decrement. The winner was announced while many polls were still open and most of the votes were not counted. We are sick of our corrupt government. We do not have many rights but we can vote and we want our vote heard.
CM – Have there been many deaths?
Friend – It is hard to tell, not many protesters are killed but a lot of people are disappearing. The government will come to their homes at night and take someone away, families are not told where their loved ones are going nor are they able to locate them.
CM – How many people?
Friend – 100’s and 100’s maybe 10,000. People are not showing up for work they are not in school. We will die for our freedom, when we leave our home in the morning we understand this maybe the last time.
CM – Is the government apprehending citizens?
Friend – Some, I learned two hours ago 2-5 planes arrived in Tehran 3 days ago; the planes were carrying Hamas fighters. Hamas hates us, the government will use Hamas to kill us then the government will blame it on an uprising of the people, it will be the governments excuse to shut down the country, curfews and arrested anyone that protest. We will die.
CM – Will the Hamas fighters appear as Iranians?
Friend – Yes but the do not speak Farsi they speak Arabic.
CM – How many people are demonstrating is this more than the youth?
Friend – The numbers you see on TV is less than10% of us, our protest is young and old. We protest next to a person that voted differently than us but that is not the fight.
CM – The vote was corrupt what else is motivating Iranians?
Friend - 30 years of pinned up frustration and anger. The people are angry over government suppression, we want our freedom.
To summaries Hamas has arrived, the crowds are growing and people are disappearing.
I need to get some work done while I do I’ll try to recall more of the conversation.
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Post by johng on Jun 18, 2009 18:24:40 GMT -5
Freedom isn't far away when patriots are willing to die for it! Stay out and let them settle this on their own because it is what they want that counts and will last!
None the less it is a very sad situation when the populace has to fight to the death against their government!
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jun 18, 2009 19:05:22 GMT -5
T's and P's for the Iranian people.
Man, CM, the phone conversations were incredible.
I'd like to shove Hamas all the way up Carter's alimentary canal from finish to start, then kick his sorry puss in his buck teeth.
Naw. Kidding. That would put a Hamas eye out.
I hate to say this, but, the Carter fiasco could blow up in Obama's face. That would be no laughing matter.
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Post by johng on Jun 18, 2009 19:50:15 GMT -5
T's and P's for the Iranian people. Man, CM, the phone conversations were incredible. I'd like to shove Hamas all the way up Carter's alimentary canal from finish to start, then kick his sorry puss in his buck teeth. Naw. Kidding. That would put a Hamas eye out. I hate to say this, but, the Carter fiasco could blow up in Obama's face. That would be no laughing matter. Carter-Hamas-Obama Trio not good. No disrespect intended!
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CM
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Post by CM on Jun 18, 2009 19:56:07 GMT -5
T's and P's for the Iranian people. Man, CM, the phone conversations were incredible. I'd like to shove Hamas all the way up Carter's alimentary canal from finish to start, then kick his sorry puss in his buck teeth. Naw. Kidding. That would put a Hamas eye out. I hate to say this, but, the Carter fiasco could blow up in Obama's face. That would be no laughing matter. Carter-Hamas-Obama Trio not good. No disrespect intended! I knew Carter and to this day I see a person (we had dinner Monday) weekly that had daily contact with Carter the insiders call him Jimmy Two Shoes.
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Post by johng on Jun 18, 2009 20:38:17 GMT -5
He should stick to Habitat for Humanity and lay off the foreign policy stuff and Lord knows he has no Military Tactic expertise.
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Post by Tired in CV on Jun 18, 2009 21:35:21 GMT -5
He should stick to Habitat for Humanity and lay off the foreign policy stuff and Lord knows he has no Military Tactic expertise. He definately was mediocre in the military as a junior officer who went from surface ship to submarines. Then attempted nuclear power training but resigned his commission prior to completion. I don't recall any successful military operations conducted during his presidency. Even Ted Kennedy didn't like him as president and ran against him when Carter was going for reelection. Of course Carter won only to lose to Reagan.
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CM
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Post by CM on Jun 18, 2009 21:47:58 GMT -5
I tuned into about 20 minutes of Hannity today, his ranting were exactly the opposite from my conversations with Iranians. Hannity is 180 degrees off on this one, but I suspect Hannity will do and say anything to make Obama look bad.
My friend’s cousin said he will call me from Tehran early in the morning if he does not object I will record the conversation and make a youtube vid to post here.
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Post by dj on Jun 18, 2009 22:25:27 GMT -5
Hannity is 180 degrees off on this one, but I suspect Hannity will do and say anything to make Obama look bad. Describes Hannity in a nutshell.
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Post by bruce on Jun 19, 2009 6:39:40 GMT -5
I tuned into about 20 minutes of Hannity today, his ranting were exactly the opposite from my conversations with Iranians. Hannity is 180 degrees off on this one, but I suspect Hannity will do and say anything to make Obama look bad. My friend’s cousin said he will call me from Tehran early in the morning if he does not object I will record the conversation and make a youtube vid to post here. 100% correct regarding Hannity, Rush, Beck, Savage et al. I've been saying this here since January.
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Post by jdredd on Jun 19, 2009 11:45:37 GMT -5
Here is my impression of Hannity:
1. He is the most rote. He goes over the same talking points over and over, worse than Hedgecock.
2. Other conservative talkers occasionally criticize the Republicans. Hannity never has anything bad to say about Republicans that I've heard, nor anything good to say about the Democrats.
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