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Post by bruce on Mar 24, 2009 15:46:35 GMT -5
CM-just a question-why does it cost more to drive across with a fake "green card" and less to walk across with a fake "green card"?It doesn't quite calculate,it seems to me the cost of the fake card should be the same regardless if the holder had his own transportation.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Mar 24, 2009 17:12:42 GMT -5
CM-just a question-why does it cost more to drive across with a fake "green card" and less to walk across with a fake "green card"?It doesn't quite calculate,it seems to me the cost of the fake card should be the same regardless if the holder had his own transportation. It could be because there is less risk when walking across. Driving across means almost always having to go through the authorized border crossing points. There are cameras that take everyone's photos and photos of the license plates of every vehicle that crosses. They keep a tally of those that cross back and forth and they gather intel on those in the country and what they are doing. Hence the greater risk. Those that walk across do so mainly in rugged terrain where detection is still not a sure bet. Risky, but, not as much so.
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Post by lou on Mar 24, 2009 17:27:34 GMT -5
Jack, We do not often play dueling studies. I am not talking about a study I am talking about a GAO report. We both know that the drain numbers are not as easy to quantify as the ESF. I made a statement. Lou called me on it and I am providing my supporting documents. I think I have you on this one so it figures you are looking to have it declared a draw. Larry, Jack, Hatch, CM, and all: here is the site that I found my info: www.ssa.gov/OACT/NOTES/AS119/as112.htmlthis comes from the ss office, so I don't know if you could call it a report or a study.
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Post by lou on Mar 24, 2009 17:31:49 GMT -5
In my building there are between 45 and 50 residents who are Russian immigrants,mostly Jewish,about20-25% of the residents.They mostly were professionals-professors,doctors,scientists- in Russia,Almost all of them exist strictly on a little known SSI program.They receive around $900 a month for individuals,$1800 for couples.I don't know the name of the specific program, but most of them never worked a day in this country.It is not social security and there is a means test.There are a few others,from Taiwan and Iran here also on this program.None of the hispanics are on this SSI program. Not surprisingly,some folks here are resentful as their Social Security is lower than the SSI recipients.I think it may be a refugee status thing but I don't know. Several times I have received an email petition to "not give social security to illegals".I never sign nd once wrote back to the sender,what about illegals who did contribute?Never received an answer. Bruce that is it exactly "refugee" status and the monies come from the general fund of Social Security. Could this be one of the reason SS is in the red or soon to be depending on which DC clown has the microphone?
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CM
Rookie
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Post by CM on Mar 24, 2009 18:01:16 GMT -5
CM-just a question-why does it cost more to drive across with a fake "green card" and less to walk across with a fake "green card"?It doesn't quite calculate,it seems to me the cost of the fake card should be the same regardless if the holder had his own transportation. I don’t have any government reports or data, just first hand experience. There has never been a reason to question as none have anything to gain to tell me something other than the truth. I’m reluctant to go into much detail; however I’m certain it is no secret to ICE. Both of the crossings I’m speaking of are at the San Ysidro border station. The cost of a Green Card varies but it does not matter if you walk or drive, same cost. The difference is in safety and security. Driving as a passenger in a car is almost 100% safe and if you were to get caught you get another try. Almost like a second chance guarantee. If you walk and get caught it cost another $1500 no second chance. Some of the guy will cross in Texas then make their way west (in Horace Greeley style,) but the scenario is the same. One would think this would be the riskiest way to cross but the guys’ just laugh at how easy it is. Makes you wonder who’s minding the store. I’ve met very few that have done it the hard way that Hatch speaks of. That is why I believe the government estimates are grossly understated. I never indented to befriend so many or any for that matter. It happened by accident, I had been burglarized 5 times and finally said enough. That is when I began packing a .38 now a .45. On the 5th burglary I caught the guys, held them a gun point until the cops arrived. Turned out the two were really some bad dudes, they had been extorting from the illegals. The bad guys served 3 months in jail then deported. I became somewhat of a celebrity and gained the respect of the illegal community. Some have become excellent friends, I’ve been to their homes for dinner, and I’ve sat around their camp fires and slept in my sleeping bag with them. I see my friend Manuel the most frequent 3-4 times a week, I will miss him when he returns home the week after next. I have two homes, the second is in a remote area, it is here where the stories take place. I realize this is a very sensitive subject, please don’t shot the messenger.
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Post by tpfkalarry on Mar 24, 2009 20:04:07 GMT -5
Lou, The link doesn't work. The oact notes are typically actuarial reports. I think you should do yourself a favor and read it real carefully to see if it is as comprehensive as the esf data before you post it again.
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Post by Tired in CV on Mar 25, 2009 1:06:52 GMT -5
In my building there are between 45 and 50 residents who are Russian immigrants,mostly Jewish,about20-25% of the residents.They mostly were professionals-professors,doctors,scientists- in Russia,Almost all of them exist strictly on a little known SSI program.They receive around $900 a month for individuals,$1800 for couples.I don't know the name of the specific program, but most of them never worked a day in this country.It is not social security and there is a means test.There are a few others,from Taiwan and Iran here also on this program. None of the hispanics are on this SSI program.Not surprisingly,some folks here are resentful as their Social Security is lower than the SSI recipients.I think it may be a refugee status thing but I don't know. Bruce, I don't know who told you that the SSI program is little known. I was made aware of it in the early 80's by some immigrants that lived next to me. This program is in high gear with elderly immigrants coming to this country. Aside from those you mentioned, the elderly filipino's who are sponsored by their children are on SSI within a couple of months. And unless you are speaking about just those in your building, there are plenty of Hispanics on that program. They are the ones who informed me about it! I have seen advertisements to help people get on SSI in Asian and Hispanic papers as well. This is one of the greatest draws of people who petition their parents to live here. They take up little space, eat very little, can babysit for you and make enough to almost pay your mortgage! Yes, they love them too! But it sure raises the financial status in the family! There is another program from the county that will pay for your elderly parent to attend an Elder Care facility during the day. Many like to do this for the socializing with other elderly people. Then the county will pay one adult in the household for "care taking" of the elderly parent on days of non-attendence and weekends. This usually amounts to $200-$300 every 2 weeks. They don't withhold anything from the SSI either, just pay more money! Of course, we are talking about LEGAL immigrants here but they never ever worked in the U.S. and still get all these benefits. While our Congress is handing out these benefits to immigrants who haven't ever worked here, they cut back the social security benefits of the older federal employees by 2/3. For every 3 dollars they get in Social Security, they take back 2 dollars from their retirement. Yes, I can see why some people are upset with the system and want to cut back on the entitlements.
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Post by bruce on Mar 25, 2009 6:30:45 GMT -5
Well.I guess the SSI program was little known to me prior to moving in here in May of '07.It just seems odd that people can come here and immediately get $900 a month and those who worked receive in some cases several hundred a month less.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Mar 25, 2009 17:15:03 GMT -5
Bruce, do you think this is true about people that live where you live?
I have known about assistance for refugees. But, I was flabberbedoggonedgasted at Tired's information.
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Post by lou on Mar 25, 2009 18:02:39 GMT -5
Lou, The link doesn't work. The oact notes are typically actuarial reports. I think you should do yourself a favor and read it real carefully to see if it is as comprehensive as the esf data before you post it again. I am not quite certain why the link doesn't work when I go to the SS it works, go figure. The info in this actuarial report is incomplete because the reporting is incomplete, in other words more illegals are working and not paying into the system and not reporting. The ESF on file is not as complete as you would like it to be, according to report A-13-03-20371, there were inconsistencies in the SSN used as official reporting IDs, it was ascertained after checking that numbers belonged to children and the deceased. So the merits of this particular tool cannot be that precise. You can continue to believe that the 12-24M illegals here are, in fact, paying their fair share. But the reality is not so, more money is going out to illegals than they generate into the Fed, State, or local levels. I know it is difficult for you to accept; but, that is up to you. Those of us who shop at the grocery stores see the illegals using Food stamps to buy their groceries, living in subsidized housing, and unfortunately, I had a recent stay in the ER and I witnessed first hand the illegals using the ER as their "clinica!" There are too many other instances which support my original contention, illegals do NOT pay enough into the system to warrant the free ride they are enjoying on MY tax dollars!
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Post by lou on Mar 25, 2009 18:07:21 GMT -5
In my building there are between 45 and 50 residents who are Russian immigrants,mostly Jewish,about20-25% of the residents.They mostly were professionals-professors,doctors,scientists- in Russia,Almost all of them exist strictly on a little known SSI program.They receive around $900 a month for individuals,$1800 for couples.I don't know the name of the specific program, but most of them never worked a day in this country.It is not social security and there is a means test.There are a few others,from Taiwan and Iran here also on this program. None of the hispanics are on this SSI program.Not surprisingly,some folks here are resentful as their Social Security is lower than the SSI recipients.I think it may be a refugee status thing but I don't know. Bruce, I don't know who told you that the SSI program is little known. I was made aware of it in the early 80's by some immigrants that lived next to me. This program is in high gear with elderly immigrants coming to this country. Aside from those you mentioned, the elderly filipino's who are sponsored by their children are on SSI within a couple of months. And unless you are speaking about just those in your building, there are plenty of Hispanics on that program. They are the ones who informed me about it! I have seen advertisements to help people get on SSI in Asian and Hispanic papers as well. This is one of the greatest draws of people who petition their parents to live here. They take up little space, eat very little, can babysit for you and make enough to almost pay your mortgage! Yes, they love them too! But it sure raises the financial status in the family! There is another program from the county that will pay for your elderly parent to attend an Elder Care facility during the day. Many like to do this for the socializing with other elderly people. Then the county will pay one adult in the household for "care taking" of the elderly parent on days of non-attendence and weekends. This usually amounts to $200-$300 every 2 weeks. They don't withhold anything from the SSI either, just pay more money! Of course, we are talking about LEGAL immigrants here but they never ever worked in the U.S. and still get all these benefits. While our Congress is handing out these benefits to immigrants who haven't ever worked here, they cut back the social security benefits of the older federal employees by 2/3. For every 3 dollars they get in Social Security, they take back 2 dollars from their retirement. Yes, I can see why some people are upset with the system and want to cut back on the entitlements. You are absolutely accurate.
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Post by bruce on Mar 25, 2009 21:02:36 GMT -5
Yes Yired that is pretty much the case for some in the building,they arrive here and very shortly they are getting SSI.I don't know anything about the Elder Care thing,but I know busses come daily and take Russian,Chinese and Iranians to some kind of day center(separate busses for each group).They also have a plan where housecleaners come in and clean their apartments and the housekeeper is paid by the county.Some of the older ones are probably not capable of doing it themselves,but others are able bodied men who walk 8 blocks to Ralph's and go to the casinos.
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Post by Jack on Mar 25, 2009 21:29:15 GMT -5
Yes Yired that is pretty much the case for some in the building,they arrive here and very shortly they are getting SSI.I don't know anything about the Elder Care thing,but I know busses come daily and take Russian,Chinese and Iranians to some kind of day center(separate busses for each group).They also have a plan where housecleaners come in and clean their apartments and the housekeeper is paid by the county.Some of the older ones are probably not capable of doing it themselves,but others are able bodied men who walk 8 blocks to Ralph's and go to the casinos. Bruce, Last month, both my 84 yr. old parents were hospitalized at the same time and then spent time in a rehab. facility. With family help, my Dad was trying to figure out how to obtain all the in-home services they would need after they left the hospital. They live in Falmouth, Mass. and the senior services are excellent with one exception related to income. If my parents were making a combined income below approx. $35,000, they would only have to pay a voluntary $17.00/mo. to get in home care that included such things as housecleaning, laundry, shopping services, bathing/dressing help, meal preparation and more. Because their combined retirement income is slightly higher, they would have to pay FULL price for all these services. An amount that would be a budget buster. Fortunately, they did not need more help than they could afford, but the disparity between what they have to pay and what others with a little bit less income have to pay is shocking. The other strange part is that the age requirement (without alzheimers) is only 60. I guess that's why people try to liquidate their assets and appear impoverished when they really need gov't help in cases like this.
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Post by tpfkalarry on Mar 25, 2009 22:23:31 GMT -5
Lou, Please find for me the post where I said they were paying their fair share. We both know I am specific if nothing else. I said they pay hundreds of billions into social security and that we should be mindful of that when we make our decisions. I indicated that while we were counting our savings in health care we would probably have to contribute more to keep SS liquid. If you have data that invalidates any of those statements I am eager to see it. The data you can find on the ESF account seems to support what I was saying although it probably doesn't answer the straw man argument you are trying to make for me.
I wonder if the "illegals" in the stores you shop at wear a team jacket of if we have been so insightful as to actually stamp their foreheads or something. Just wondering how you know they are "illegal." Not to put down generalities but I think you should re-think that statement. Perhaps you have more than just the assumptions you are making but again it just doesn't seem like it. I guess the ESF fund amounts are probably not as convincing as the "field research" you are doing in stores. I would be willing to look at this study as soon as you publish it.
Tell me are you having the same deja-vu that I am having. Remember the ESL kids portion of intervention funds in El Cajon. You had your recollections of a conversation with a vice principal and all I had was the data on their web-site. For the AB777 argument you had a wealth of information taken right off WND and alas all I had was the legislation and the healthy kids survey. You had the convincing INS/FBI report and all I had was the no record found at the INS and FBI sites. Here you have compelling in-depth eye witness accounts of "known" illegals using food stamps (let me guess they spoke limited English) and all I have is the GAO reports on the ESF accounts. I just can't keep up. No wonder you make such biting comments concerning the lack of intellect in your average liberal. Doh!!
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Post by Tired in CV on Mar 26, 2009 1:39:52 GMT -5
Yes Tired that is pretty much the case for some in the building,they arrive here and very shortly they are getting SSI.I don't know anything about the Elder Care thing,but I know busses come daily and take Russian,Chinese and Iranians to some kind of day center(separate busses for each group).They also have a plan where housecleaners come in and clean their apartments and the housekeeper is paid by the county.Some of the older ones are probably not capable of doing it themselves,but others are able bodied men who walk 8 blocks to Ralph's and go to the casinos. Yes, many Elder Care facilities are created toward specific target groups. It helps the elderly socialize better and feel more comfortable. While each center will allow any qualified person to attend, they deliberately focuse on specific groups. That is why you have different busses picking up the elderly taking them to different locations. This is an expanding industry that is growing at the county's expense. They must pass a Health check (they serve food) and have at least one medically qualified person present during operation. I am on a non-paid oncall service for several of these centers in the southbay to help when they are shorthanded.
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