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Post by lou on Mar 22, 2009 16:53:39 GMT -5
"Anglo Conformity"? Is that supposed to be the goal? I totally reject that premise. Sorry, folks, "Anglo" culture is history...salsa overtook ketp some years ago, and hip hop displaced waltzes a long time ago. Apologies for not defining the phrase "Anglo conformity" as the author used it in the context of her article. She used Anglo conformity to mean nothing more than "English as the spoken language." In other words, those immigrants both from c.1892-1965 and c.1972-c.2002 were successful (defined as achieving the American dream) when they spoke English and showed a willingness to learn English.
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Post by jackoliver on Mar 22, 2009 17:30:19 GMT -5
Hey republicans.
since your bush turned a blind eye to illegals for their cheap labor, why dont you do your part and go to home depot parking lots and turn them all in for trying to support their families?
It sounds like even CM has a soft part for illegals.
IMO, illegals are being exploited by America and by Mexico. and come election time, the right wing hypocrocy blames the illegals....
Arent you conservatives tired of being played like a cheap fiddle made in china? I gues not because you never hold your own party responsible...
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Post by jdredd on Mar 22, 2009 18:28:39 GMT -5
THX for the clarification, lou. As for the rest of what I said: Nevermind.
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Post by bruce on Mar 22, 2009 19:20:13 GMT -5
in the large cities back east,like Chicago,Cleveland,NYC,Boston there are still only partially assimilated eastern Europeans-all have Polish,Chech,Hungarian,Yiddish media,radio and newspapers.There are a number of Russians and Asians,recent arrivals not,living in my building who have been here ten or twenty years who don't speak English,or very little.It could be said that many of my people are not fully assimilated.Language yes(some would argue that) but music,food,etc are different from the larger culture.I guess I'm not really leading anywhere,except that perhaps for some there is not much of a melting pot.
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Post by jdredd on Mar 22, 2009 19:46:54 GMT -5
What's so great about a melting pot? It's a homogenization pot more like it. And looking at the average Joe on the street, who wants to be like that? Long live diversity! Long live the oddball, the freak, the independent thinker! Down with the herd instinct! You righties who preach individualism should someday start living it. To hell with the corporate man...team player my ass...
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Post by bruce on Mar 22, 2009 20:56:06 GMT -5
To extrapolate on my previous comments,and I hope no one will be offended,when I moved to Phoenix at the age of 10years and 10 months,I was a little white boy.I knew nothing as far as my new environment.I was the most naive person ever to enroll at Percy L. Julian school.I didn't know what a man who"wore a conk" meant.(he straightened his hair).I didn't know what "playing the dozens"was.(friendly insulting).When someone told me in August that Tuesday was "mother's day" I was uncomprehending.(the 11 of the month,the day the welfare checks were released).I didn't know who the Dominoes,the Cadillacs,Lowell Fulsom etc were.I thought "How Much Is That Doggie In The Window"was "neat".a word none of my friends ever used in that sense,the word to use was "cool" or "sharp",and certainly it didn't pertain to Patti Page. Fortunately I had friends who were great and understanding.Years later,when I was in my forties,Anthony told me they were attracted to me because I was so "white".I was like someone in a foreign land. Sometime in December,a gruop of eight or ten of us were at the the school playing basketball when we decided to take a break.Sitting on a bench,I said something and everybody laughed.Not a laugh of derision,as I was used to hearing,but a laugh of enjoyment. Then someone said"You just another n....r now",and I was the happiest 12 year old in town! The point is,I guess,that the culture is quite different among other than the majority group and should be recognized.
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CM
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Post by CM on Mar 23, 2009 10:39:16 GMT -5
Jack,
Thanks for the anchor baby clarification.
Larry,
I like your salad analogy, “ There is a blending of tastes but each ingredient maintains its own flavor.” Additionaly each ingredient must work together and compliment other ingredients, otherwise it gets eliminated the next time the salad is made.
Regarding SS tax, I disagree. Many illegals are paid cash, in my 11 years working with them never have I encountered one that paid social security tax. Lou's number validates my observations. My guess the numbers of illegals here are 2-3 times more than the estimates.
I do agree most want to learn English, perhaps not as an effort to assimilate but in an effort to make more money, speak English and become a supervisor, manager, and or recruiter. Those that speak our language get the better jobs.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Mar 23, 2009 19:14:11 GMT -5
I like the salad analogy, too. Very fitting. Perhaps it would not be too far off the mark to say that everything is brought together by one dressing. It sets a common theme. We don't say things like "Americanism", nor should we. It is something that is just understood by those that want to be Americans. Of course, I am not talking about French dressing.
There are Little Italy's, Little Tokyo's and Chinatowns. The Little Saigon area up near Westminster is great for Vietnamese fare. Olvera Street in Los Angeles attracts visitors from around the world. Of course, everyone knows about Solvang. These places add flavor to our national theme.
Barrio Logan and East LA contribute little. They promote separation more than they do "assimilation". Just look at the murals, posters and graffiti. It is also important to note that the most influential groups that operate within these communities are working hard to garner voting power to change, among other things, immigration law.
There are pockets of different ethnic groups that strongly preserve their heritage. I've been in Coney Island out on Long Island and eaten Blini in delis where English isn't spoken, Russian only. In places like this, I do wonder who is legal and who isn't. I've been in Mexican taquerias in California where only Spanish is spoken, too. I don't recall ever feeling unwelcome in either place.
I don't think it is a sin against society for people to preserve their heritage, if it is not for the express purpose to exclude themselves from that mixture called Americans. I draw the line there.
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Post by tpfkalarry on Mar 23, 2009 21:01:36 GMT -5
CM, It is called the Earnings Suspense File (ESF) and it contains the funds received by the SSA where SS numbers are duplicated or fake or belonging to someone deceased. I will give you a link to a report by the GAO for 2005 showing the problems with ESF contributions from certain sectors. Realize that the fund has grown more over the last four years than at any other time in history. It is now close to 600 billion. Illegal aliens also pay witholding taxes (believe me they do whether you have personally seen it or not) and they pay medicare and sales taxes. I am sure that Lou will post her verifiable and reliable sources for her numbers as soon as she reads this. Just because she has never done this in the past does not mean she will not do it this time. www.socialsecurity.gov/oig/ADOBEPDF/A-08-05-25023.pdf
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Post by Jack on Mar 23, 2009 21:54:23 GMT -5
CM, It is called the Earnings Suspense File (ESF) and it contains the funds received by the SSA where SS numbers are duplicated or fake or belonging to someone deceased. I will give you a link to a report by the GAO for 2005 showing the problems with ESF contributions from certain sectors. Realize that the fund has grown more over the last four years than at any other time in history. It is now close to 600 billion. Illegal aliens also pay witholding taxes (believe me they do whether you have personally seen it or not) and they pay medicare and sales taxes. I am sure that Lou will post her verifiable and reliable sources for her numbers as soon as she reads this. Just because she has never done this in the past does not mean she will not do it this time. www.socialsecurity.gov/oig/ADOBEPDF/A-08-05-25023.pdfLarry, We could play dueling studies on this for the rest of time. We've argued about this so many time in the past it now feels like an old friend come to visit. I think in the end that the balance of evidence would indicate that illegal aliens are a net drain on our gov't, social services and society. Wow, I just had one of those weird Deja Vu things in my head. Now I'm most likely going to have a variation of the High School dream tonight. It will probably involve an imaginary Larry deleting all my Google links before I can post them and pointing me down the hallway to the wrong classroom. How about Dueling Banjos instead of this old argument?
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Post by tpfkalarry on Mar 23, 2009 22:59:31 GMT -5
Jack,
We do not often play dueling studies. I am not talking about a study I am talking about a GAO report. We both know that the drain numbers are not as easy to quantify as the ESF. I made a statement. Lou called me on it and I am providing my supporting documents. I think I have you on this one so it figures you are looking to have it declared a draw.
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Post by Tired in CV on Mar 23, 2009 23:36:31 GMT -5
It is called the Earnings Suspense File (ESF) and it contains the funds received by the SSA where SS numbers are duplicated or fake or belonging to someone deceased. Illegal aliens also pay witholding taxes (believe me they do whether you have personally seen it or not) and they pay medicare and sales taxes. Larry, I will agree with you that those illegal aliens who utilize a social security number to get a paycheck will be handled like all others and have appropriate funds withheld as would any citizen. But there is another substantial group of illegal aliens who foregoe legal documents and get paid "under the table". That report ignores them because it has no means of tracking them. It is only targeting those that have funds withheld. I believe that is the group that CM references. He has first hand knowledge that they exist and do not have pay withheld in those areas. As for sales tax, if they buy something, they will be taxed. Although, I know that there are many "Roach coaches" and "laundry trucks" that sell food and clothes to illegal aliens and do not report their income, thus do not remit sales taxes. Again, the system is bypassed through other illegal activities that only exist because the illegals are here. I have observed these sales off of Black Mountain Road, off highway 79 (near I-15) and near Alpine.
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Post by bruce on Mar 24, 2009 6:34:51 GMT -5
In my building there are between 45 and 50 residents who are Russian immigrants,mostly Jewish,about20-25% of the residents.They mostly were professionals-professors,doctors,scientists- in Russia,Almost all of them exist strictly on a little known SSI program.They receive around $900 a month for individuals,$1800 for couples.I don't know the name of the specific program, but most of them never worked a day in this country.It is not social security and there is a means test.There are a few others,from Taiwan and Iran here also on this program.None of the hispanics are on this SSI program. Not surprisingly,some folks here are resentful as their Social Security is lower than the SSI recipients.I think it may be a refugee status thing but I don't know. Several times I have received an email petition to "not give social security to illegals".I never sign nd once wrote back to the sender,what about illegals who did contribute?Never received an answer.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Mar 24, 2009 7:57:13 GMT -5
There are illegal aliens that pay into SS. These are the ones that hold regular jobs from which they receive regular paychecks that are subject to regular withholdings. How do you spot them? Most employers can't without help.
The I-9 form was supposed to provide an employer a means of doc-checking an applicant. Of course, if the docs were fake, who would be the wiser? A signature under a statement that said something like "Under Penelope of Purgatory", the applicant had no fear of ever being caught and no one ever heard of Penelope or even knew where Purgatory was.
The SSA had a function to perform for its own purposes which was to ensure that monies collected were credited to the accounts of real people who enter the system, presumably legally. When a number doesn't match a name, a letter is sent to the employer. The letter simply asks the employer to ask the employee to contact the SSA. They are not required to ask for someone named Penelope, however.
If the employee does not contact the SSA within a reasonable period of time, which is anywhere between 90 days and 90 centuries, another letter is sent. This one is often signed by Penelope. I imagine she signs it with a rather stern look on her face.
After the employee has worked for decades, contributing the the SS suspense account, he kisses that money good bye if he is illegal.
This presents a special problem for the U.S. What could happen to our SS system if illegal aliens were to suddenly be entitled to have access to all this money that has sat in Purgatory all these years?
I shudder to think about it.
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CM
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Post by CM on Mar 24, 2009 9:32:59 GMT -5
This morning one of my trusted friends informed me he will be returning to Mexico week after next. Manuel had not been home in 3 years and will spend two months visiting family and friends. I asked if he was concerned about returning, he laughed “no problem.” Manuel said the cost of crossing has increased; walking across at San Ysidro with fake “Green Card” in hand is costing $1500.00, to drive across with the same fake “Green Card” cost $3000.00. The prices have doubled in the last 2-3 years.
As I said before I believe the numbers here are more than doubled from the government estimates.
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