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Post by tpfkalarry on Mar 15, 2009 13:14:38 GMT -5
Lou, Are you just deaf to the FISA saga or still in denial? Have you even gone to look at the memo summaries or are you counting on RR to be your fact checker? Look at the timeline of the memos and compare that to the timeline of the Bush administrations violation of that law and their subsequent attempts to circumvent it. Justice, whose role is to advise the White House about legal issues, was a willing conspirator in directing the administration in their campaign to create an environment where laws can be broken by individuals who will later claim they had clearance by justice. That is not supposed to be a pre-meditated or pre-ordained process and I think you know it. There will be an investigation and there will be revelations. Historically you have always blustered at the beginning of these events and then not so vocal when the facts come out. I will be happy to remind you of this later.
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Post by jackoliver on Mar 15, 2009 18:00:29 GMT -5
Its is too bad some in this country disregard the rule of law and the Constitution of our great country when it reveals their own political parties abuse . IMO, that shows you the true colors and spots of these type of people who selectively see in the Constitution only what they want to see, when convenient. Reminder to everyone , the constitution pertains to ALL Americans. sorry to burst the bubble of those who have selective morals. Nixon lied and got busted. Clinton lied and got busted. I cant wait for Bush and his ilk's turn !!!! It is comming... Cheney would look wonderfull in a mug shot ! God Bless President Obama, and God Bless America and the Constitution that founded this great country.
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CM
Rookie
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Post by CM on Mar 15, 2009 20:01:27 GMT -5
Its is too bad some in this country disregard the rule of law and the Constitution of our great country...... Jack Oliver, are talking about Obama’s birth certificate again?
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CM
Rookie
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Post by CM on Mar 15, 2009 20:30:31 GMT -5
Jack Oliver,
Just for you.
8 step program to become a zombie.
1. OBAMA IS GREAT I LOVE OBAMA 2. Obama has done more in 50 days than Bush in 8 years 3. Obama hasn't even been in office for 100 days yet, give him a break 4. Despite naysayers, Obama leads us to a better place 5. America should give Obama a chance and stop fighting the change 6. Obama is the best President we've ever had 7. Why do Republicans hate America so much? 8. We will rise from the mess created by Republicans
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Post by jackoliver on Mar 16, 2009 12:13:14 GMT -5
with some conservatives disregarding the constitution as Bush/ Cheney have, I have complete faith in the conservative movement. NOT.
CM, I think its time you pull out Obama's birthcertificate from under you pillow...enlighten the world with your secret.
It's good to see some things never change.
Even Sarah Palin is consistantly ignorant ;D
the political line is clearly drawn here....those that respect the constitution and those that selectively respect it. what a pitty and waste.IMO
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Post by EscapeHatch on Mar 16, 2009 16:55:33 GMT -5
Motive vs Modus... ... the political line is clearly drawn here....those that respect the constitution and those that selectively respect it. what a pitty and waste.IMO I quite agree! I also agree that it was disrespectful of the Constitution to force a spending package through without full review by the committees. It also seems awfully unconstitutional for a person that was not elected or lawfully appointed to an office to obtain FBI files on political adversaries for personal use and gain. Hillary Clinton did this during her First Lady years. It has been my intention to not defend Bush on his intrusions into people's privacy with respect to the IV Amendment. I am still trying to understand the truth and legalities of the matter. What confuses it is the fact that suspension of Habeus Corpus, i.e. Abraham Lincoln, seems to be acceptable to so many while the intrusion of privacy now calls forth a great cacophony. One is the ultimate denial of rights- the right to be free and the other is the right to not be overheard. One calls for incarceration, without due process, while the other calls for interception, again without due process. I don't mean to belittle the concerns of many. By the same token, I am loathe to look for the mountain behind the mole hill. It ain't the mountain I am concerned about. It's that damned big mole hill that scares the hell outta me.
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Post by jackoliver on Mar 16, 2009 18:05:14 GMT -5
good post Hatch , I agree,
anyone breaking the law should be held accountable... ANYONE...
I would love to get them all under oath....
Im not defending anyone here.... lets see what Bush realy did,,,and lets see what Clinton really did.
I will say this, like him or not,,Bill Clinton was man enough to go under oath,,,unlike the Bush cowards... And Bill got what he desearved....I would vote for him again, but not trust him with any women... ;D
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Post by EscapeHatch on Mar 16, 2009 18:16:18 GMT -5
s... And Bill got what he desearved....I would vote for him again, but not trust him with any women... ;D Well, why not? Better the devil you know than...
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Post by EscapeHatch on Mar 16, 2009 18:38:56 GMT -5
Seriously, Jack Oliver, since you replied sincerely, I think that it is important to put the suppositions of guilt in the balance and measure them against motives.
On one side of the balance is the motive, if not sworn duty, to protect the nation from another attack. On the other side is defending and protecting the Constitution. I don't begrudge anyone whose balance, or sense of, leans to the latter. I just wish that a certain amount of equanimity existed for those on the other side of the pivot.
A part of my reluctance to let loose my gut feeling that the president may have been correct in what he did was the evidence we saw of the failure in treating a terrorist network as a law enforcement action, ie, the JTTF, and all of its encumbrances. That was about as useless as reading a terrorist with an AK-47 in his hands his rights before denying him his ultimate right, the right to life- just before he pulls the trigger and blows away an innocent man on the street.
I put the FBI thing in my post to juxtapose that incident in which personal gain from the invasion of privacy against the invasion of privacy in order to protect Americans. While you would be agreeable to seeing justice served in the FBI file case, many in this country don't see it as hypocrisy as they hammer away at Bush.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Mar 17, 2009 17:30:12 GMT -5
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