|
|
Post by dj on Sept 5, 2010 19:04:51 GMT -5
You can believe in God without thinking he designed the whole damn place for humans. And if you say " the universe can and will create itself from nothing", maybe you have just described God. And maybe you've simply described a natural process for which a designer is unnecessary. Who knows? |
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on Sept 5, 2010 20:06:25 GMT -5
You can believe in God without thinking he designed the whole damn place for humans. And if you say " the universe can and will create itself from nothing", maybe you have just described God. And maybe you've simply described a natural process for which a designer is unnecessary. Who knows? Well, to reduce the question from the macro to the micro, do you believe people have souls? |
|
|
|
Post by cemilne on Sept 5, 2010 22:48:53 GMT -5
And maybe you've simply described a natural process for which a designer is unnecessary. Who knows? Well, to reduce the question from the macro to the micro, do you believe people have souls? Do you? |
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on Sept 5, 2010 23:29:01 GMT -5
Well, to reduce the question from the macro to the micro, do you believe people have souls? Do you? Asked you first! Just kidding. I think people have a soul...but we all share the same one. |
|
|
|
Post by animal on Sept 5, 2010 23:55:37 GMT -5
No soul... no heaven or hell..... you die and become worm food or get burned up. Life is simple.
|
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on Sept 6, 2010 0:22:46 GMT -5
No soul... no heaven or hell..... you die and become worm food or get burned up. Life is simple. Now that's a depressing thought. And people think I'M a downer. So when the big comet hits the Earth and everyone dies, it was all for naught? |
|
|
|
Post by nikki on Sept 6, 2010 0:29:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on Sept 6, 2010 2:21:21 GMT -5
You can believe in God without thinking he designed the whole damn place for humans. And if you say " the universe can and will create itself from nothing", maybe you have just described God. And maybe you've simply described a natural process for which a designer is unnecessary. Who knows? Then again, what is "natural"? Is there anything "supernatural" in the universe? As Whittaker Chambers said, people need to believe in the mystical. Most people, anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by dj on Sept 6, 2010 12:57:08 GMT -5
And maybe you've simply described a natural process for which a designer is unnecessary. Who knows? Then again, what is "natural"? Is there anything "supernatural" in the universe? By definition, no. All that exists in the universe is what is referred to as "natural" and any theoretical things or theoretical forces outside the natural space-time universe are referred to as "supernatural." In other words, if it is in the universe, it is not supernatural. People tend to call something supernatural if it is mysterious or unexplainable. Thousands of years ago, the sun and stars were unexplainable, so they were gods. Earthquakes and wind and weather were unexplainable, so they were the result of gods' workings. The last couple hundred years, science has explained much. The list of phenomena that seem unexplainable is very small, and in that list many people still see the supernatural. I don't think that to believe in God or be spiritual, one needs to find proof in the natural universe. If there is a creator of everything including time, I don't think the creator would have to be evident in the natural universe. Science and religion don't need to fight because they truly inhabit different spaces. Neither needs to explain the other, and really they shouldn't try. |
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on Sept 6, 2010 14:15:55 GMT -5
Then again, what is "natural"? Is there anything "supernatural" in the universe? By definition, no. All that exists in the universe is what is referred to as "natural" and any theoretical things or theoretical forces outside the natural space-time universe are referred to as "supernatural." In other words, if it is in the universe, it is not supernatural. People tend to call something supernatural if it is mysterious or unexplainable. Thousands of years ago, the sun and stars were unexplainable, so they were gods. Earthquakes and wind and weather were unexplainable, so they were the result of gods' workings. The last couple hundred years, science has explained much. The list of phenomena that seem unexplainable is very small, and in that list many people still see the supernatural. I don't think that to believe in God or be spiritual, one needs to find proof in the natural universe. If there is a creator of everything including time, I don't think the creator would have to be evident in the natural universe. Science and religion don't need to fight because they truly inhabit different spaces. Neither needs to explain the other, and really they shouldn't try. That is the one line here I can disagree with. I think the extent of what we know is almost infinitely minute. I have no doubt almost everything we think we know will turn out to be mistaken. In the face of the almost infinite universe or universes, we are still mites on the ass of an ant. |
|
|
|
Post by animal on Sept 6, 2010 20:54:34 GMT -5
No soul... no heaven or hell..... you die and become worm food or get burned up. Life is simple. Now that's a depressing thought. And people think I'M a downer. So when the big comet hits the Earth and everyone dies, it was all for naught? Was what all for naught? Life? Enjoy it while you got it, dont worry about anything beyond that. You may find it was a waste of your time. |
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on Sept 7, 2010 1:14:30 GMT -5
Now that's a depressing thought. And people think I'M a downer. So when the big comet hits the Earth and everyone dies, it was all for naught? Was what all for naught? Life? Enjoy it while you got it, dont worry about anything beyond that. You may find it was a waste of your time. If we're wiped out, isn't all of human history for naught if there's no afterlife? We would be completely forgotten...And then it wouldn't matter what you did, it would be a waste. Is just having a lot of feel-good moments what's it's all about? That's depressing. |
|
|
|
Post by Tired in CV on Sept 7, 2010 2:44:19 GMT -5
Was what all for naught? Life? Enjoy it while you got it, dont worry about anything beyond that. You may find it was a waste of your time. If we're wiped out, isn't all of human history for naught if there's no afterlife? We would be completely forgotten...And then it wouldn't matter what you did, it would be a waste. Is just having a lot of feel-good moments what's it's all about? That's depressing. Species die off all the time on earth and new species appear. So what if the "human" race dies off. Just like the other species, they are teaching tools as their prehistoric remains are discovered. We humans may be a teaching tool to a newly evolved creature of earth or maybe even aliens from space. The prehistoric creatures lived through various periods evolving and leading into the current life on earth. Mankind may be just another stepping stone to a new age, even if we all die off. I just read an article stating that most efforts to save a creature from extinction is useless and may even cause more harm. It is said that extinction is part of the evolutionary process. Whether you believe in God or not, evolution does exists! |
|
|
|
Post by animal on Sept 7, 2010 9:24:25 GMT -5
Was what all for naught? Life? Enjoy it while you got it, dont worry about anything beyond that. You may find it was a waste of your time. If we're wiped out, isn't all of human history for naught if there's no afterlife? We would be completely forgotten...And then it wouldn't matter what you did, it would be a waste. Is just having a lot of feel-good moments what's it's all about? That's depressing. When I am gone, I know I will have taught my kids what I know... making thier lives easier to live. Yesterday was a prime example, as I wrote in the "feel-good" "Day to Day Life" section that bores you.... me and my son tore down and put together a playhouse swing set for the kids.... I showed him shortcuts and lots of tricks to make it easy without breaking anything. Would that get me to heaven? Hell no.... but it will help him when he builds or tears down something. Thats my main goal in life and my responsibility.... the kids. The rest is moot. People can do whatever religion they want, in my world, as long as they dont tell me I am wrong or going to hell... I demand the same respect I give them. Some handle it, some dont. If someone needs the reward of heaven or the threat of hall to keep them in line, so be it. I dont... I live for the here and now and while trying to be a nice person, I dont worry one bit about the hear-after... waste of MY time. |
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on Sept 7, 2010 12:41:30 GMT -5
If we're wiped out, isn't all of human history for naught if there's no afterlife? We would be completely forgotten...And then it wouldn't matter what you did, it would be a waste. Is just having a lot of feel-good moments what's it's all about? That's depressing. When I am gone, I know I will have taught my kids what I know... making thier lives easier to live. Yesterday was a prime example, as I wrote in the "feel-good" "Day to Day Life" section that bores you.... me and my son tore down and put together a playhouse swing set for the kids.... I showed him shortcuts and lots of tricks to make it easy without breaking anything. Would that get me to heaven? Hell no.... but it will help him when he builds or tears down something. Thats my main goal in life and my responsibility.... the kids. The rest is moot. People can do whatever religion they want, in my world, as long as they dont tell me I am wrong or going to hell... I demand the same respect I give them. Some handle it, some dont. If someone needs the reward of heaven or the threat of hall to keep them in line, so be it. I dont... I live for the here and now and while trying to be a nice person, I dont worry one bit about the hear-after... waste of MY time. Actually, I kind of enjoy reading about your day-to-day experiences in that thread. It makes interesting comparison to what I'm doing from day-to-day, and frankly I find a lot of what you do admirable.  I try to keep my natural pessimism out of that thread. Also, you are not alone in the "Live for today" philosophy. Many people feel the same way. I just never managed to feel that way, I'm always looking for some larger meaning to life. Waste of time? Probably. |
|
