VOR
banned
BANNED FOR LIFE
VOR
Posts: 294
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Post by VOR on Jan 21, 2009 21:12:42 GMT -5
Hatch, do you think a Felon, or in this case two felons need to be out of prison for appeals to continue??? Do you not know, being a expert Minuteman how our laws work?
Felons, always they will be felons.
The point of entry doesnt matter. They shot over twenty rounds at this guy like target practice. I wonder how many bullets Minutemen have shot at unarmed Mexicans trying to cross into America??
How many times have you shot at them Hatch ole boy?? We'll see how long Obama and his team put up with Minutemen. LOL
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Post by tpfkalarry on Jan 21, 2009 23:35:57 GMT -5
Vor,
Excellent use of the ad hominem. When the conservatives on the RR site used this tactic on me I figured that it was because they did not have the specifics required to continue the discussion in the form it had taken. They would always resort to attacking me when they could no longer find any fallacy in my argument. I am sure it is different in your case since it is a known fact that us liberals are completely logical in all things.
I think putting the sentence about the two agents shooting twenty rounds into Davila with your question about the minutemen is propaganda that even Rove would be proud of. I guess conservatives might suggest that this is both hasty generalization (since your inference is so obvious), or that you are at the very least begging the question. Naturally you and I know this is not the case. After all aren't we liberals and just too rationale for that kind of an argument.
Your final ad hominem that is tied in a loose fashion with your hastily constructed thread is really the coup de gras that I referred to earlier. There is clearly no way for him to respond to this in any way that can be related to the discussion we are having. If you were a conservative I would think you were just out of gas, or that you did not understand that the subject is not so black and white. Luckily for both of us you are a liberal and really above all of that. You sure showed Jack and the rest how to construct an argument. You do not have to be Limbaugh to get a rush out of this. I bet Rick plagerizes this very post for his next topic.
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Post by dj on Jan 22, 2009 1:39:16 GMT -5
Jack, Is this the blind squirrel thing? I agree that he got this one right. I guess it's nice that the very very last thing he did in office was the right thing.
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Post by dj on Jan 22, 2009 1:42:48 GMT -5
And I guess I must have been absent the day VOR decided to rescind his "truce" here? I agree with Larry I'm a little puzzled at VOR's insistence in going over the top on Hatch like that.
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Post by Jeff on Jan 22, 2009 2:40:27 GMT -5
Commuting convicted disgraced border agents because of talk radio and GOP wacko presure is a disgrace TO ANY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN IMO You made the statement, now back it up. Where is your proof that talk radio influenced this action? Are you sure that it is ONLY GOP wacko pressure was responsible? Who were the wackos? Again, were there not ANY democrats who supported this action? Let me update and answer a couple of these for you: 1. You take the word of Rick Roberts that talk radio had something to do with pressuring Pres. Bush! 2. Senator Pelosi had appealed to Pres. Bush to release them. And she wasn't the only democrat either.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jan 22, 2009 9:17:35 GMT -5
...I'm a little puzzled at VOR's insistence in going over the top on Hatch like that. It's OK, DJ. When I read the paragraphs before his puzzling attack, I read legitimate discussion. VOR, I'll answer your questions: In as much as I am aware, not one legitimate Minuteman has ever shot an illegal coming across the border. Most simply report. Some will track so as to vector Border Patrol agents in. Most carry extra water and food in case it is needed. The crossing is not a walk in the park. Some keep extra blankets on hand because it can get very cold. The written rule of most groups is to NOT TOUCH, NOT BLOCK and to NOT HARASS. Assist if an illegal is in distress and, most importantly, assist the Border Patrol in apprehending the illegals. There have been bad apples involved in patrolling the borders. Some have even been in uniform. This is an unfortunate factor in any group. It is also true that the good guys take the heat and even take the risk. I am acquainted with a SD Sheriff deputy that was shot in the leg by a person on the south side of the border. I know of a Border Patrol agent that died from excessive heat exposure and exhaustion while on a foot pursuit through Carrizo Canyon.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jan 22, 2009 19:00:58 GMT -5
Warning! Unverified Information!This is from the Daily Kos, of all places: Not everyone was applauding their impending release. At a news conference this week, Mexico's Deputy Secretary of Foreign Relations Carlos Rico said, "this is a message of impunity, it's difficult to understand."
He also acknowledged that Mexican officials had lobbied hard to prevent the former Border Patrol agent's release.
Now we hear from the Mexican government that direct interference with the U.S. government is the reason these two men went to prison.
Back in 2006 when the Department of Homeland Security's inspector general was Richard Skinner, some of his officials went over to meet with members of Congress to address their concerns about the prosecution of these two agents.
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When Congressman Walter Jones of North Carolina, who's been involved in this case since the very beginning, trying to get these agents freed, was asked what he thought of this admission by the Mexican foreign ministry, that they've been actively lobbying to keep these agents in jail, he said, "tell the Mexican government to keep the drug smugglers on their side of the border."
If the statements of the deputy foreign minister of Mexico, and the fact that it appears quite clear now that the Bush administration, if his statements are true, that the Bush administration was nothing more than a witting tool of the Mexican government. See www.dailykos.com/story/2009/1/22/03548/3223
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CM
Rookie
Posts: 0
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Post by CM on Jan 22, 2009 19:18:09 GMT -5
Disclaimer, this information comes from a reliable source but I did not witness it personally or do I have a link.
Last night on a Mexican news channel it was reported the two border patrol agents had murdered a Mexican citizen.
Folks if this is true there is tons all of us can read between the lines.
Hatch, thanks for the link, my suspicious nature says there is a much more to this than we know.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jan 23, 2009 7:56:52 GMT -5
... I think waiting until March does nothing but allow for the chance of something tragic. I join you in hoping that my fears are unwarranted. Sadly, something has happened. A short time ago, the Ramos family home was broken into, robbed and ransacked. The dog was severely beaten. The bad guys also opened a gas valved which filled the house. The family was away from the house for two days. One of the sons smelled the gas when he opened the front door. Police said that it was a good thing that he didn't turn on a light. After their release, they still hope for their day in court. A writ for certiori has been filed.
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