VOR
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VOR
Posts: 294
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Post by VOR on Jan 20, 2009 21:26:36 GMT -5
Lou calls the trial a circus.....in TEXAS? ? Where the most conservative people live? Texas people who execute people for stealing horses? That Texas had a trial that favored a Mexican?? Read the circus from the transcript Lou?? Whats the point of a circus. Oh I see. Because he heard Mr Racist himself, Senor Roberts say it was a circus. Seems right. Jack says he heard something outrageous and Lou calls something he doesnt have a clue about a circus and you conservative supporters call the dead on truth.
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Post by Jack on Jan 20, 2009 22:12:37 GMT -5
VOR,
From reading your comments it's obvious that you have virtually no understanding of the circumstances surrounding the border incident involving former Border Agents Ramos and Compean. Nor do you have any understanding of the nature of their legal battle. You also continue to deride others for not completely citing sources while you continue to offer nothing more than your usual partisan prattle and derisive name calling. I've tried in the past, but now I don't see much reason to continue attempting to discuss anything further with you. Try Larry, he's much more patient than I will ever be and he's professionally committed to not give up on a problem child.
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CM
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Post by CM on Jan 20, 2009 22:38:08 GMT -5
VOR, From reading your comments it's obvious that you have virtually no understanding of the circumstances surrounding the border incident involving former Border Agents Ramos and Compean. Nor do you have any understanding of the nature of their legal battle. You also continue to deride others for not completely citing sources while you continue to offer nothing more than your usual partisan prattle and derisive name calling. I've tried in the past, but now I don't see much reason to continue attempting to discuss anything further with you. Try Larry, he's much more patient than I will ever be and he's professionally committed to not give up on a problem child. Agree Jack. VOR’s desire is to stand on the street corner pounding his chest screaming at the top of his lungs “I shut down another blog.” His ego will continue to underestimate the other side, it will come back to bite him, it will defeat him. Thank god he is not protecting our country. Why should anyone bother, the all mighty VOR is ALWAYS right. This blog is near collapse and we will all hail God VOR, he should enjoy his short-lived SELF proclaimed success. He is an army of less than zero and he does not get it.
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Post by tpfkalarry on Jan 20, 2009 23:46:37 GMT -5
CM,
Is the blog that fragile? I think VOR can take the criticism as well as we can.
The only thing I can find regarding Mexico pressuring Bush is from Jerome Corsi. In a number of articles Corsi claims to have congressman on the record that the Mexican consulate was pressuring during the initial investigation. In none of them does he provide any names. I think the consulate had to get involved in order to get Davila back here, but I have found nothing that makes me thing there was any serious diplomatic efforts to squash the commutation.
I don't really think the North American Union prophet (Corsi) is enough to make me think this story has legs. I would expect there was a phone call or two, but once Sutton went public with his concerns about the severity of the sentence than Bush's act was soon to follow.
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Post by Imogine Oliver on Jan 21, 2009 0:21:55 GMT -5
TOO BAD OJ SIMPSON WASNT A REPUBLICAN.. MOST IF NOT ALL REPUBLICANS WOULD HAVE BEEN OVERJOYED HE GOT OFF FOR A CRIME. Just like these two disgraced CONVICTED FELON BORDER AGENTS. I thank God all conservatives are not like that. there are some who agree these officers are guilty,,,unlike the conservatives I see around here. I guese the rule of law and the constitution means NOTHING to these type of conservo's. Thanks for bringing OJ Simpson up. He was a Democrat and there were plenty of Democrats who were cheering that he got off! They stated that it was a charge against a black man and not the real criminal. Yes, these officers are guilty. If VOR really read all 1200+ pages then he also knows that the wound to the buttocks was inflicted from the side, not directly from behind. He would also know that the victim had just had a violent confrontation with another border patrol agent just moments before and was fleeing from that. That doesn't justify their crime though. Bush is not giving them a pardon, only commuting their sentences. That frees them but leaves them with a great burden toward future jobs that provide for their families. It is a surprise Bush has gone that far as he had appointed Sutton and was his friend. Also, Bush has pardoned far fewer than any other president has. You haven't stated anything about the others he has pardoned nor criticized any democrats issuing pardons either. Again, your position is backed with you partisan issues and you go against this commuting of sentences because your OPINION is that conservatives supported pardoning them. I don't suppose there are any democrats who also supported their pardon? Do you know what political party Ramos & Compean belong to? I thought not!
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VOR
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VOR
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Post by VOR on Jan 21, 2009 1:03:31 GMT -5
OJ Simpson was a Democrat? LOL.....it's amazing when someone makes something up. Plenty of Democrats were cheering when he got off.......wheres the proof....... The Illegal was running away, and he may have turned slightly to the side, but the shooting was from behind, not from the front as he ran in the opposite direction. Lets see, what Political party do these felons belong to??? Lets show proof?? I thought so...you have none. Imogene Oliver.....sounds again like guess who.....the same person that wrote post after post the same lies?? I thought so.
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Post by Jack on Jan 21, 2009 11:52:53 GMT -5
Larry, I read a couple of articles that included references to the efforts of the Mexican government to lobby against the commutation of the sentences of the former Border Patrol Agents. I found one in the SD UT archives: "Bush orders release of border agents" www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jan/20/1n20pardons224819-bush-pardons-2-ex-agents-border-/?uniontribExcerpt: " Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas, who called the agents' convictions a “grotesque injustice,” said he and other lawmakers initially had hoped to have the agents pardoned. “When it became evident there was resistance at the White House to a pardon, that's when we shifted gears to ask for a commutation,” he said." "Carlos Rico, Mexico's deputy secretary for foreign relations, condemned the decision and said Mexican officials had lobbied against it." “This is a message of impunity,” Rico said. “It's difficult to understand.” "The decision appeared to represent a relatively safe yet high-impact action for Bush, who chose not to grant clemency to any high-profile figures or government officials facing liability over administration policies."
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VOR
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VOR
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Post by VOR on Jan 21, 2009 12:38:25 GMT -5
LOL.....Jack it seems you act that a child. You have a symbol of a bald Eagle but don't have the guts to address VOR? LOL.
You are a joke. You and youre conserbative views are a joke and have been for years. Isn't it wonderful to have a whole country hate everything you believe to be a joke, and vote for the complete opposite of everything you stand for??
I love the frustration you are going through......CM.....its what makes my day. Just think...eight years of the most Liberal voting member of Congress....a wonderful black man as your President.
I love it!!!!
Conservatism is dead...your ideals are dead.
Liberalism reigns.
The best Republicans have is Sarah Palin, the national joke.
All because she invokes God. Yet her family is anything but Godly. She is a scammer, a liar and a cheat and so are her kids. She is as stupid as many that post. Sarah, where's Africa.....she's like the kid in the commercial who looks on the map and then falls tearing down the map because he can't find it.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jan 21, 2009 19:52:22 GMT -5
I believe you're correct. The angle of the entry of the bullet does make one wonder. I think, too, that there were statements made that the Border Patrol didn't know Davila or what he was doing in the US. He was well known in the area, before and after his bumping into the bullet.
I am pleased with the commutation. Only a ruling in court will exonerate them. With the commutation, their appeal on the verdict can proceed. This is what they want in order to clear their names.
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Post by tpfkalarry on Jan 21, 2009 20:02:37 GMT -5
Jack,
Sadly you were not able to join us in the chat. During that event both DJ and I were posting at the same time proving once and for all that we are not the same person. I guess your last post proves that you are able to provide additional references when asked.
I wonder if the conversation about commuting the sentences went any higher on their side than the consulate. I agree that Bush seemed to tread rather softly when it came to pardons, clemency and commutations. Clinton was proof that eight years of fairly good policy can be seemingly undone in one short month. His pardons left a sour taste that many have yet to be able to cleanse. Even he probably had to take more than a couple showers to feel clean again.
Vor,
He provided you with some outside references. I am not sure if your following post was your retraction, but that would have been your chance to provide some objective information as a counter point if you were in posession of any. Trading thoughts is different than just trading jabs. There is parrying and there is sometimes even a feint or two and perhaps a coup de gras, but the intellectual exchange should have an elegance akin to fencing that exceeds what you would expect if you were using cudgels. En garde!
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jan 21, 2009 20:15:04 GMT -5
CM, ...I think the consulate had to get involved in order to get Davila back here, but I have found nothing that makes me thing there was any serious diplomatic efforts to squash the commutation.... Larry, I posted a link to an AP story last summer about a contingent of Mexican officials meeting in Washington with Justice Dept representatives about this very topic. Since the RR blog has been polluted with the new format, I don't know where to look for the link. There were also Mexican news stories about Mexican officials demanding a guilty verdict, stiff penalties and no clemency, pardon or commutation and about their attempts at influence in Washington. Again, this was several months ago. Whatever Corsi writes is bound to stimulate disagreement. But, he is not always 100% wrong. As a confirmed muckraker, I suppose any truth he speaks is going to be called into question. Kind of like the boy who cried wolf. You may recall that the House launched an investigation into the Mexican government's meddling with the case and, separately, in immigration issues. It is not beyond belief that Mexico will attempt influence wherever and whenever they can. This includes supporting a movement that wants to take back parts of the US. As a government spokesman at the Mexican consulate in San Diego said ON VIDEO, " this is and always will be part of Mexico."
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Post by tpfkalarry on Jan 21, 2009 20:32:55 GMT -5
Hatch,
Consulates in general seem to spend a great deal of time lodging complaints. I would be concerned about our foreign policy if they did not have something to complain about. During the trial and the period right afterwards I did a lot of reading of transcripts and of both versions. I think the two should have been found guilty from what I saw. The time they have already served seems just to me. I think commuting their sentence seems just to most people. I think waiting until March does nothing but allow for the chance of something tragic. I join you in hoping that my fears are unwarranted.
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Post by jackoliver on Jan 21, 2009 20:39:50 GMT -5
Commuting convicted disgraced border agents because of talk radio and GOP wacko presure is a disgrace TO ANY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN IMO
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Post by Jeff on Jan 21, 2009 20:43:45 GMT -5
Whatever Corsi writes is bound to stimulate disagreement. But, he is not always 100% wrong. As a confirmed muckraker, I suppose any truth he speaks is going to be called into question. Kind of like the boy who cried wolf. You may recall that the House launched an investigation into the Mexican government's meddling with the case and, separately, in immigration issues. It is not beyond belief that Mexico will attempt influence wherever and whenever they can. This includes supporting a movement that wants to take back parts of the US. As a government spokesman at the Mexican consulate in San Diego said ON VIDEO, " this is and always will be part of Mexico." To several posters here, once wrong always wrong. Of course that doesn't apply to themselves. They can't get past old news, i.e. Sarah Palin for president. They still don't understand that she never ran for president and ONLY they are embracing the idea while attacking everyone else that they support her when they don't! She doesn't even stand a chance in a primary and is so tuned against the media that I doubt that she will ever seriously consider the possibility. The media and a few radicals here keep embracing the idea though! Yes, remember President Vincente going to Los Angeles and rallying the people about this being their country (i.e. Mexico)!
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Post by Jeff on Jan 21, 2009 20:49:31 GMT -5
Commuting convicted disgraced border agents because of talk radio and GOP wacko presure is a disgrace TO ANY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN IMO You made the statement, now back it up. Where is your proof that talk radio influenced this action? Are you sure that it is ONLY GOP wacko pressure was responsible? Who were the wackos? Again, were there not ANY democrats who supported this action?
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