CM
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Post by CM on Feb 28, 2009 17:49:22 GMT -5
Bruce,
As an investor like thousands of others the lack of faith in Obama’s spending plan is the source for the markets continued decline. Any element of faith would slow or stop the decline. I don’t expect miracles over night but stability seems only an illusion.
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bruceb
Man On The Street
Posts: 240
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Post by bruceb on Feb 28, 2009 20:01:08 GMT -5
It's more than "lack of faith",it's the current near depression situation.The economic indicators are horrible.Millions and millions of people are struggling to feed their families,pay the mortgage or rent,and send their kids to school.And those making over $250G may pay a bit more.So?Many newly homeless are families who have never been homeless before,got laid off,couldn't find a job,and lost their house or apartment.And the rich whine on.
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CM
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Post by CM on Feb 28, 2009 20:57:32 GMT -5
Bruce,
I do not think whining is the appropriate word, I would pick unfair. Obama’s proposed system taxes and reduced deductions will put those making over 250k in a 55-70% bracket, personally I think that is criminal. It strips away incentive and desire to succeed; perhaps we should just be a country of droids.
Admittedly I and many others were caught off guard by the reduced deduction proposal, perhaps Obama did not tell a blatant lie, but he was less than forthright. And for the first time in my thinking his agenda is pure socialist.
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bruceb
Man On The Street
Posts: 240
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Post by bruceb on Mar 1, 2009 6:48:47 GMT -5
If I recall correctly,Obama said that the middle class would see a reduction in taxes.$250K and up is not middle class,it is the top 3% of income brackets.I said whining tongue in cheek but that's how it appears to a majority of people.There are a number of elderly in my rch who are living on less than $800 a month.We have working men who have been unemployed for a year or so who earned $10 or $12 an hour when working,with a wife who worked who also is laid off.Most of them have children.Some did have good jobs and now have ,or about to,lose their homes they bought 15 or 20 years ago.To many,the $250,000 a year crowd don't get much sympathy,any more than CEO's making $15million complaining about having to give up their yachts and their mountain "cabin" worth $7million.That's why I said "whine"
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bruceb
Man On The Street
Posts: 240
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Post by bruceb on Mar 1, 2009 6:55:05 GMT -5
Gallup poll 02/28/09 as of 10am Obamas job performance 67% approve 21% disapprove This is the daily tracking poll.Quite different than the views on here, CM when I log on,the first page that come up is dated Feb.22. with my old user name. ??It's not really any problem except I like to preview the various topics and if there are no new posts,I go out from there.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Mar 1, 2009 8:32:16 GMT -5
This is whining...
You make it through high school. Before you even graduate, you;ve applied at upteen colleges throughout the country. Most face rejections from most of the desired institutions. You are finally accepted, but, don't qualify for a grant or any other assistance.
You take out a loan.
You embark on a 4 year voyage. You hold a job, study, date a bit, you sacrifice.
You network so you can have a job when you graduate. It's competitive out there. You land a job.
You discover that you think you can do as good of a job as your employer and start your own company. You put up with your employer while being paid only enough to keep you around. You start making other plans.
Somewhere along the way, you've gotten married and had a couple kids. Pressure's on. You have to perform to keep meat on the table. You still make plans.
You do it. You get some backing, find some partners, take the leap.
Into heaven and hell.
The money is better. You earn far more. You give it back in expenses, overheads and more bills than you've ever seen. You have this agency and that department, all wanting a fee so you can have the privilege to pay more each year and to be regulated. Oh, yeah, and you have to write out these checks to the state and to the fed four times a year.
You find out that an employee was hurt. No problem, after years of paying unbelievable workers compensation premiums, he is taken care of. You worry about your employees' well being, of course. You don't think about what they are tnking about you.
So, he sues. He wants to be taken care of because he wants to retire. You think he ought to work. Hell, his doctor said he was released to work after just one day. Employee thinks otherwise.
He gets a lawyer. Your attorney specializes in business law. His specializes in castration.
You sweat. You have to keep things going, so, you sweat in private on your own time. Perhaps you win. Well, your attorney wins, actually. Employee hasn't anything to recover your legal fees.
Buy that nice car you were looking at next year. The attorney just bought his.
Your wife is getting a bit miffed. You didn't notice after all those years. That was the point. You were away on trips scratching for business. You work late at the office because there are not enough hours in the day. She starts taking vacations without you. You dream of enjoying that one great one with her.
You make these sacrifices, you missed out on so much life and you are told that you are going to miss out on even more. So much more.
Sixty seven percent approval. Yeah. There are that many people in this country that think that way. These people know how to get aHead.
They steal yours.
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Post by tpfkalarry on Mar 1, 2009 13:11:46 GMT -5
Hatch, When Americans think of "business," they do not think of a guy they have come to know on a blog. They do not think of their neighbors. They think of the multi-nationals that will sell products overseas because they are tainted. They think of the peanut butter guy that knew he had a problem but did nothing about it. They think of the back room deals and the payoffs and the influence. They do not think about guys like you (sorry).
Before you showed up at RR we had a number of discussions about the grocers strike at Vons. Everybody but the union stooge (guessing that was me) thought the answer was Wal-Mart. But I know some small business owners. The guy who screens the shirts for your soccer league and the guy who sharpens blades or fixes televisions. When you let the big guys squeeze out the small guys it changes your life just a little. Pretty soon you don't remember how it used to be. People used to call me stupid because I admitted that I would willingly spend a little bit more because I was nostalgic or something. But I remember the people who donated coupons for the raffle I used to pay for a couple of benches and trees so kids could read outside, and the guy who donated supplies so I could reward the junior olympians. When they go we notice the empty structure but I often wonder if we notice the difference it makes when we add them all up. I like business owners that talk to their customers. I like communities that still have those "relics." I am rooting for you.
When Reagan uttered the line about the ten most feared words in America I am sure it hit home with you. But for a lot of us it is not an all or nothing relationship. It is not a choice of socialism versus laissez-faire. It is not Hoover versus Roosevelt. There has to be a balance between your ability to thrive and our desire to protect our citizens. Newton was probably only partially correct. For every action there is not just an equal reaction there is often an out of proportion over-reaction. I am part of the sixty seven per cent. I have been on both sides of union lines and job descriptions. I produce a product. I have ample opportunity to view my work over time and if my work is any good I get to feel really good about it. Nobody can take that away from me or make it worth less because they do not like my politics. I hope you too take the time to appreciate the value of your efforts. I still run into people who worked for me in a prior career. That they still want to take the time to talk to me and see what I am up to means something as well. I would be willing to bet that there are more people who are glad they met you than you will find on a message board(s).
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Post by tpfkalarry on Mar 1, 2009 13:12:48 GMT -5
Hatch, By the way I liked your story. You need to work on the ending. Audiences love the feel good effect of a happy ending.
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bruceb
Man On The Street
Posts: 240
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Post by bruceb on Mar 1, 2009 15:42:08 GMT -5
A member of our rch took leap and invested his life savings in a small business-a barbeque take out and catering service in la Vista.For years it was a success and he put two kids through college,bought a home in what was then the best neighborhood in la Vista.The last year has been a disaster.Barbeque is not cheap and his business is off 45%.He is about to lose the business and his home.He is 58 years old and dropped out of school in the 11th grade.What is his future?Hopefully he can get a loan from the government to tise him through until times improve.He is a stimulus supporter.
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Post by daleescondido on Mar 1, 2009 17:23:38 GMT -5
It's more than "lack of faith",it's the current near depression situation.The economic indicators are horrible.Millions and millions of people are struggling to feed their families,pay the mortgage or rent,and send their kids to school.And those making over $250G may pay a bit more.So?Many newly homeless are families who have never been homeless before,got laid off,couldn't find a job,and lost their house or apartment.And the rich whine on. You would have to take all the wealth of the upper groups to solve the mess. Then you have to trust it would be spent responsibly. Then you would have to find them ;D Remember the real wealth doesnt have to do anything with the money , at least not here.
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Post by daleescondido on Mar 1, 2009 17:27:25 GMT -5
A member of our rch took leap and invested his life savings in a small business-a barbeque take out and catering service in la Vista.For years it was a success and he put two kids through college,bought a home in what was then the best neighborhood in la Vista.The last year has been a disaster.Barbeque is not cheap and his business is off 45%.He is about to lose the business and his home.He is 58 years old and dropped out of school in the 11th grade.What is his future?Hopefully he can get a loan from the government to tise him through until times improve.He is a stimulus supporter. How much money would help? Anyone know how long this will last? I am off 50-60% and adjusting to pain I never thought possible. But I will take my old Motorhome out of storage before I take sba money.
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CM
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Post by CM on Mar 1, 2009 21:03:43 GMT -5
A member of our rch took leap and invested his life savings in a small business-a barbeque take out and catering service in la Vista.For years it was a success and he put two kids through college,bought a home in what was then the best neighborhood in la Vista.The last year has been a disaster.Barbeque is not cheap and his business is off 45%.He is about to lose the business and his home.He is 58 years old and dropped out of school in the 11th grade.What is his future?Hopefully he can get a loan from the government to tise him through until times improve.He is a stimulus supporter. How much money would help? Anyone know how long this will last? I am off 50-60% and adjusting to pain I never thought possible. But I will take my old Motorhome out of storage before I take sba money. My hat off to you Dale, good for you. Incentive is gone when the harder you work the more you will be taxed. I remember a young boy coming to this country working 100 hours per week and living in a storm drain when others went to school. The young boy learned the language, he learned the system. He raised 4 children while averaging 2500 billable hours per year, achieving his high school diploma two months after his oldest child, ultimately graduating from college the same time as his second oldest child. There is always a way, handouts should be the last resort. In others words if you can breathe, walk and talk, destiny is yours for the picking. Yes, I support a stimulus bill, I do not support the current spending bill.
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Post by bruce on Mar 1, 2009 21:21:52 GMT -5
Hatch,if you don't want "government money",don't take it.I don't know what business you're in,but if comes to accepting government money,and going under,take the money.I say this for small businesses,not for big corporations.In many cases the big business man made terrible decisions and took as much out of the company as he could.I never understood the giving out of bonuses when someone gets fired for failure.Bonuses should reward success.
I get thr feeling that those of you posting here don't know the situation of many,many people.These I mentioned are real people who are suffering,not some statistic.
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CM
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Post by CM on Mar 1, 2009 21:36:12 GMT -5
In all due respect a person that lived in a storm drain knows the people. If that person can achieve with only the shirt on his back then so can the real suffering people that have the advantage of hand outs.
Don’t get me wrong, I believe helping those that are out there busting their ass helping themselves. I do not believe in helping the person that elects a president because that person has decided they no longer want to pay their mortgage.
Larry spoke of nostalgia; well nostalgia to me is lace up your boots and work. I no of know other way to relive the pain and suffering.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Mar 1, 2009 22:25:32 GMT -5
Bruce, I actually don't think I'll reach the point of needed a bail out. Thank God. At least I hope not.
At times, much to my detriment, I allow loyalty to people that work for me to get in the way of making the right business decision.
I had a guy working for me, out of the Marines for about a year, that told me about the wonderful Christmas he had with his family. He told about the blankets everyone got, a trinket here and a bauble there. He described the sumptuous dinner his wife prepared. He described how bright the stars were and how warm the roaring fire was.
That caught my attention, but, I didn't do the math.
He then spoke about how glad they all were about the blankets. He had a large station wagon. When they were all packed inside for the night, explained, he said everyone slept soundly and warm.
It dawned on me. They were homeless. His Christmas story was the best I ever heard or read.
A year or so later, he said he got a better job. All I could do was to wish him well. I saw him a few years later running a good old fashioned full service gas station.
His family lived in an apartment.
I am in Baltimore right now. It is snowing outside. It's cold. I know that there are people out there that are doing their best to keep out of the weather without the blessing of a home.
I am out here trying to keep customers and drumming up new business. It is ironic that all of it is from the government. But, I'll take your advice: if I need it and if there is no choice, I'll take the money. I have bills to pay and employees to keep employed.
A person has to do what he must to make a life. It seems, however, that the government these days has another idea.
I think I know in what spirit you offered your advice, Bruce. I apppreciated that. Thanks.
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