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Post by dolphie on Aug 6, 2009 22:07:12 GMT -5
Can't agree here, jg. Servicemen take an oath to do what they are told by their civilian leaders as laid out in the Constitution. In other words, they go where we tell them when we tell them, and do what we tell them. If the American people dislike the results, or lack of results, then when we tell them to come home that's what they need to do without whining how they were "not allowed to finish the job". Which is why MacArthur rightly got his ass canned. jdredd, you are making a mistake here. Politicians are not the people. The politicians got us into war - not the people. The majority of America stands behind our military - we just don't like what the power hungry, egotist, agenda focused politicans do when they mess with a well trained group. We also don't like special interest groups getting their noses in the way. We don't like that they can pay their way into the viewing/hearing space of the politicans over our greater yet softer voice. The majority of us do not like to leave a job halfway done. If we go to war - then let the military do their job. They are the ones specialized in the art of war - not the politicians.
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Post by jdredd on Aug 6, 2009 22:16:23 GMT -5
Can't agree here, jg. Servicemen take an oath to do what they are told by their civilian leaders as laid out in the Constitution. In other words, they go where we tell them when we tell them, and do what we tell them. If the American people dislike the results, or lack of results, then when we tell them to come home that's what they need to do without whining how they were "not allowed to finish the job". Which is why MacArthur rightly got his ass canned. jdredd, you are making a mistake here. Politicians are not the people. The politicians got us into war - not the people. The majority of America stands behind our military - we just don't like what the power hungry, egotist, agenda focused politicans do when they mess with a well trained group. We also don't like special interest groups getting their noses in the way. We don't like that they can pay their way into the viewing/hearing space of the politicans over our greater yet softer voice. The majority of us do not like to leave a job halfway done. If we go to war - then let the military do their job. They are the ones specialized in the art of war - not the politicians. I have to disagree again. The politicians are our elected representatives. If you don't like them, vote them out. I don't agree with Duncan D. Hunter on almost anything, yet he is my representative until I get off my duff and convince the clowns in my district to elect someone who agrees with ME. And a job not worth doing should be abandoned as soon as you can. There is a time to cut your losses.
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Post by dolphie on Aug 6, 2009 22:39:34 GMT -5
I have to disagree again. The politicians are our elected representatives. If you don't like them, vote them out. I don't agree with Duncan D. Hunter on almost anything, yet he is my representative until I get off my duff and convince the clowns in my district to elect someone who agrees with ME. And a job not worth doing should be abandoned as soon as you can. There is a time to cut your losses. I understand your point - and it is a valid one. I think that after this latest fiasco - Americans will be more cautious than in the past. I do have some points to raise: 1) manipulation of the votes on the part of ACORN 2) The American people are a trusting lot. We expect our politicians to take care with our country. Usually - by the time we see they are inept - it is too late and they have X years of being inept until the next opportunity rises to boot them out of office. This is the case with the current Executive and Legislative branches. Many people are stuck with something they never believed would happen. 3) Americans, as a rule, are not privy to confidential information. The politicians are. This in and of itself creates smoke such that we cannot see the full picture. Cite: Honduras. We do not really know who is best for that country. We have MSM who is terribly biased towards socialism/communism. We have a biased administration and legislative body that is on a path towards the destruction of the USA as a Republic and Capitalist country. North Korea. We do not know what went on behind closed doors such that the dictator of NK is contented. If we did - we would act accordingly. If we have all of the facts - then sure - you can lay it all in the people's laps. But - politicians lie and they change their colors. Rarely is the public privy to all the facts of any given situation. I am _not_ saying the people do not hold responsibility for I believe they do. People have been too apathetic for too long. On the other hand - we need the bills and everything put into motion by the politicians to be readable, to the point and transparent rather than the convoluted, multi-page rhetoric that is now produced. Locked, Loaded and Ready to Serve!
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Post by jdredd on Aug 6, 2009 23:01:26 GMT -5
Rats. Now I have to agree with you again. Not about ACORN, because they are on my side, but mostly because I really haven't been convinced they are a factor. But item 2 is right on the money. And 3 too, for both Dem and Rep administrations. And as I've said before, I'm GLAD you righties are getting off your duffs and fired up. Your decades-long complacency was annoying to me. It was no fun being the only one who seemed to give a s**t about the state of the nation. I may think your solutions are bunk, but good should come out of the struggle.
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Post by johng on Aug 7, 2009 11:11:17 GMT -5
I personally took the OATH JD and to this day I live with and by it! I will do as is necessary to "Protect and Defend Against All Enemies - Foreign or Domestic" and the biggest threat I have witnessed since the Cuban Missile Crisis ended is in Washinton DC today! I never post with expectation that you or anyone else will agree nor do I seek your agreement - nor should you. Play is play and serious issues of national defense and protection of our civilization as we like it, is something you "Hippie Types" should leave to us. No offense - just stating it as I see it. When you lay your head down tonight give Momma a kiss and tell her she can rest peacefully knowing there are men like me out there covering your ass.
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Post by jdredd on Aug 7, 2009 12:39:15 GMT -5
Hey, I know we are pals so I won't hesitate to be completely frank, I know you are a grownup who can take it. So here is a story: My father-in-law, who passed away a few years ago, was a WWII vet along with his numerous brothers. After one family gathering while he was alive where there was much talk about their war experiences, I said to my wife "Ya know, I'd pat them on the back for their service if they weren't so busy patting themselves on the back". And you know what I think of the young men of our generation who had to fight in Southeast Asia, which can be summed up in three words: They were USED.
The funny thing about the oath to defend against all enemies "foreign and domestic", is who are these domestic "enemies", and who decides who they are? In my book, some of the worst domestic enemies reside in the Boardrooms of corporate America as they plan the next domestic plant closing and opening of an overseas facility. Seeing some of them at the end of a rope would not grieve me greatly.
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Post by johng on Aug 7, 2009 12:43:37 GMT -5
I take no exception to what you say here and I applaud your Father in Law and the boys for reliving their contributions!
I don't mind hanging a few of those Corporate Dogs right along side some of those Congress and Senate Dogs but the Big Dog deserves a "special Rope" in my opinion.
At the end of the day the freedom to disclose all of this is a good thing for all!
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Post by jdredd on Aug 7, 2009 13:13:25 GMT -5
I think I'd be careful of the "Big Dog" at the end of a rope talk. While I prayed daily for GW to be abducted by aliens, I did want him to survive his term in office.
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Post by johng on Aug 7, 2009 13:22:18 GMT -5
I think I'd be careful of the "Big Dog" at the end of a rope talk. While I prayed daily for GW to be abducted by aliens, I did want him to survive his term in office. I have taken the big dog for a walk 2x a day for years and he is still at my feet No threat no Harm intended. There would be no doubt when I say something meant to be taken in concern, trust me.
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Post by johng on Aug 11, 2009 17:43:47 GMT -5
Under the thread of "Smart Defense":
Our local shipyard is scrambling with DC types to salvage the funding for the Naval Ships program(s) due to cost cutting and funding issues.
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Post by dolphie on Aug 11, 2009 18:02:52 GMT -5
Under the thread of "Smart Defense": Our local shipyard is scrambling with DC types to salvage the funding for the Naval Ships program(s) due to cost cutting and funding issues. DC types once again out of their element and ignorant of economies and smart defense.
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Post by johng on Aug 12, 2009 16:01:45 GMT -5
Under the thread of "Smart Defense": Our local shipyard is scrambling with DC types to salvage the funding for the Naval Ships program(s) due to cost cutting and funding issues. DC types once again out of their element and ignorant of economies and smart defense. They are considering "Chinese Junkets" and "Insurgent Tactics on the high seas"
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Post by dolphie on Aug 12, 2009 17:29:49 GMT -5
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Post by tpfkalarry on Aug 12, 2009 21:58:53 GMT -5
I personally took the OATH JD and to this day I live with and by it! I will do as is necessary to "Protect and Defend Against All Enemies - Foreign or Domestic" and the biggest threat I have witnessed since the Cuban Missile Crisis ended is in Washinton DC today! I never post with expectation that you or anyone else will agree nor do I seek your agreement - nor should you. Play is play and serious issues of national defense and protection of our civilization as we like it, is something you "Hippie Types" should leave to us. No offense - just stating it as I see it. When you lay your head down tonight give Momma a kiss and tell her she can rest peacefully knowing there are men like me out there covering your ass. Plenty of hippie types in my unit. Conservatives do not have a corner on defending their nation. They just think they do.
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Post by dolphie on Aug 12, 2009 22:27:21 GMT -5
Plenty of hippie types in my unit. Conservatives do not have a corner on defending their nation. They just think they do. Nah - we know where you hippie types run to when the going gets tough and it rattles your peacenik ways too much! ;D ;D
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