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Post by jackoliver on Jan 11, 2009 15:38:40 GMT -5
yes Mark, I see you point. IMO, Bush let down his GOP and the rest of America. wether intentional or not, we will never know.
I would give bush the benifit of doubt, he seems harmless, what scared the hell out of America, was how Bush let Cheney and the rest of the GOP chicken hawks have their way with America.
Irish Mike, I do feel sad about the agents families.. and yes, Im sure they wont repeat their mistakes, and yes, the smuggler is scum. By holding the aggents accountalbe ensures our law enforcement wont EVER BECOME SCUMS LIKE THE SCUMS THEY ARREST. IMO. And yes Mark, I do try to see things as black and white. As a computer programmer, I have learned to not let the gray cloud my judgement. the computer does not believe in gray, only on and off. You cannot fool a computer. I know their are gray things to consider, and those gray areas help me decide on eithe black or white.
Please understand, I see the good and bad about both parties. right now, the GOP has way more bad than good in my opinion, thus here America is.
I swear, the dems in congress better not screw this up for Obama and America..
You see, I hold them accountable as well.
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CM
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Post by CM on Jan 11, 2009 16:08:45 GMT -5
Jack Oliver, I retired on 911 after 20 years as a software engineer specializing in entity relationship diagramming (IRD.) Countless times I designed systems that did not think in zeros and ones but something in-between. I also taught system and data base design at USCD for 5 years. Black and white limits your programming skills and creativity.
Someday I’ll tell the 911 story and how bin-Laden expedited my retirement.
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Post by jackoliver on Jan 11, 2009 16:17:25 GMT -5
thanks for sharing.
Im started out in COBOL, doing Y2K...then became and Oracle and SQL programmer. so I understand the entity relationship.
I always love relational databases, very fast and sleek the way the data is broken up and stored. Unlike the flat file system in COBOL were you have repetative data stored.
I wish you could explain the gray areas in computers, To me, there was always a yes,no, on , off, logic to computers.
Itls like trying to have duplicate primary keys, it does not work. etc... Some day I'll become a DBA, but work and family take allot of time.
In computers, if its broken, there is a reason. Plain and simple. we might never figure out the reason, but there was a reason.
Also, computers dont have emotion to cloud things up,,,I think allot of gray areas come from emotion. good talking about programing with someone. Small world.
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Post by CM on Jan 11, 2009 16:27:38 GMT -5
Jack Oliver, I was one of the object oriented pioneers and one of the first that embedded objects as triggers and passing objects as parameter to procedures. I feel fortunate I never had to program in Cobol. I can think in the fourth normal form so you can have multiple primary keys by using an intersection table. Our imagination is our only limitation.
Good for you DBA is a good job.
Game time, later
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Post by jackoliver on Jan 11, 2009 16:34:42 GMT -5
Yes, I understand the mulitiple primary key look up table, it still broke it down to a yes it matches or no it does not match, IMO,
but who am I to say given your experience.
I love triggers and procedures that pass data and triggers that effect the data before or after it is updated. I am very impressed that you have done what you said !!!
I love structured query language, very user friendly and very powerfull !!!
Most of us oracle guys have had jobs go overseas...
do you see DBA"s as being a better field here at home?
I know a llot of IT contracts send the programing duties overseas, but keep the databases in the US, do you see this as true and a better stable field?
Go CHARGERS !!!
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Post by jackoliver on Jan 11, 2009 16:38:45 GMT -5
while we are on this supject, It is still amazing to me that everything in computers is broken down to assembly language...everything...
this is correct, no?
Amazing...
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Post by CM on Jan 11, 2009 18:34:32 GMT -5
while we are on this supject, It is still amazing to me that everything in computers is broken down to assembly language...everything... this is correct, no? Amazing... Almost, assembly resides just above machine language. Some folks use the words interchangeable but there is a difference. Machine is something like the old RPG punch cards. Compilers reduce code to assembly then the assembler reduces to machine. Machine language is as low as you can go, humans do not write in machine. Geezz I’m amazed I still remember this stuff.
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Post by jackoliver on Jan 11, 2009 18:49:23 GMT -5
thats right...I forgot about the machine language...
It would be amazing if some hard core programmer wrote everthing in assembly, even email,,,I know the hight languages make things easier for the programer...
I kind of like doing things the hard way, it makes ME appreciate the easier stuff...
Of course Ill just still to Oracle and SQL... god I love data, researching, queries, datamining would be a good career...
once the economy gets better, Ill throw my hat into the private sector again, for now, just being safe in a union place doing work that Im overqualified for,, raising a family and having fun while I can.
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Post by CM on Jan 11, 2009 19:10:48 GMT -5
Yes, I understand the mulitiple primary key look up table, it still broke it down to a yes it matches or no it does not match, IMO, but who am I to say given your experience. I love triggers and procedures that pass data and triggers that effect the data before or after it is updated. I am very impressed that you have done what you said !!! I love structured query language, very user friendly and very powerfull !!! Most of us oracle guys have had jobs go overseas... do you see DBA"s as being a better field here at home? I know a llot of IT contracts send the programing duties overseas, but keep the databases in the US, do you see this as true and a better stable field? Go CHARGERS !!! I’ve been out of the biz for awhile and it has changed considerably. I got in on day one; as one of the original beta testers for DOS 1.0 and remained a beta tester through version 3.0. There were few of us in those days and it was pretty easy to make a ton of money. I’ve worked in Australia creating their lottery system, in Fiji on their educational system, in Mexico on a point of sale system, Ireland on a medical manufacturing system, Saudi Arriba, China, and tons more. Today things are much different. 911 made my decision to retire but I was leaning that way for a few years prior. I would find myself competing with a guys half my age and willing to work for a quarter of my hourly rate. As time marched I saw my hourly decrease to the point it was not worth the effort to adjust with the changing technology shifts. Tools have become very sophisticated allowing less skilled to exploit the power of the computer, less skilled, less money. If I were still in the biz I would focus on design, tools are available but designing is a highly skilled profession. For example there are great IRD tools but the user still needs to be able to think past the second normal form to properly execute the tool. DBA is a good job, tools make the job more efficient but it requires a higher level skill set. SQL is good but there are tools available that allow the less skilled proficiency. India and Russia pretty much ushered in the death of the American programmer the only guys pulling in the big bucks are the game programmers. Video editing is very competitive and few can crack the market but there are still tons and tons of money to be made. We have wondered about as far off topic as we can get.
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Post by daleescondido on Jan 11, 2009 19:11:05 GMT -5
you are correct. The GOP is looking for its base,,,what happened? my opinion is that the mojority of America dont believe their lies anymore. trickle down economics only trickles jobs and money out of the country. Their message of hate and divisiveness is tired and not working any more. they put their faith in Bush and he has turned out to be the complete opposite of what he promissed. As long as Hannity and Prck Roberts, and Coulter speak for the GOP, oh I forgot Pallin, as long as they promote the GOP, America will be turned off. Remember that guy who is slated to be the new head of the RNC, remember the Obama the Magic Negro offense, is that the future of the GOP? Is that what the GOP wants America to be? some are even calling for Pallin as the new GOP champion. HAS THE GOP LOSTS ITS MIND? WHY DO SO CALLED CHRISTIANS EMBRACE SUCH LEADERS FULL OF HATE AND DIVISIVENESS? There is alot of truth in the fact that the gop doesnt represent its base anymore. Bush shattered any hope of any quick fix and destroyed any faith left . Where I strongly disagree is your focus on the fact that conservates are evil and liars. We have generally done better under democratic leadership for a long time so the gop hasnt much left to stand on. BUT, conservative values are genuine and just bercause there is no representation for us doesnt mean we are heading in a positive direction with progressive ideology. Hard core dems like you (not meant to be offensive) need to understand that most conservatives want all people to do well inspite our differences in how to get there. Both parties are pushing agendas imo and the globalization-socialization of our nation will leave us all in want of the old days. Social agendas are less painful but can lead to undesired results, just as uncontrolled global agenda could make a affluent nation poor very quickly.
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Post by tpfkalarry on Jan 11, 2009 22:16:53 GMT -5
Clearly the GOP of Bush 43 is no more. What I saw more than hate and lies was fear and mistrust. National security concerns are clearly still important and if someone were to choose a candidate based on how a voter saw them in terms of national security I would consider that an informed choice. But the fear mongering by the party, and the swift boat type activities of the fringe (since I consider the WND types as fringe), left a very bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouth. But that hardly means that anyone who believes in smaller government is a liar or evil. I think there is something slightly evil in torture and what appears to be a general disregard for the rights of individuals and the seperation of powers spelled out in the consitution. But those were sins of the elected and not the sins of the electors.
If you think about it the democratic party of Clinton and Kerry is also no more. The baby boomers ideology, born as it was out of the 60's the Vietnam war and Watergate, has been replaced by a different kind of political ideology. That is the ideology of realism and practicality. I think Obama represents pragmatism and the realization that some things are just not doable. We cannot solve all the problems. What we can do is give people opportunity to overcome them.
I would expect that the next generation of republican political leaders will be more pragmatic as well. They will probably want to attract the evangelical vote but will not be taken hostage by it. Hopefully they will learn that the politics of fear will not carry a candidate as far as the politics of hope.
We sadly have to take on debt right now. But we are facing a very dim future if we let servicing our debt and our blind allegience to the entitlement programs of the sixties completely eat up our GDP. We cannot continue as we have and the party that is able to convince the public that our standard of living needs to be adjusted before it dissapears will be the one that ends on top and stays there the longest.
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Post by CM on Jan 11, 2009 23:24:51 GMT -5
Clearly and hopefully never again but for now we live with politics/politicians du jour.
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Post by jackoliver on Jan 12, 2009 11:40:01 GMT -5
good response Dale, You made me think...I like that.
you said
Hard core dems like you (not meant to be offensive) need to understand that most conservatives want all people to do well inspite our differences in how to get there.
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well, Im not a hard core dem, just an independant who has allot of dem social ideas. Ive critized dems as well..Pelosi for being weak on bush, that Jeffeson guy with money in his freezer, etc.. But thank god they are not the entire party.
I do believe the American Republican citizen is good. It is the leaders they ellect that for the most part lies to them and America, and does not do what they have promissed to their own followers, IMO.
Like I said earlier, I doubt the republican public agrees about the guy who put out Obama the Magic Negro CD, but yet, he is still slated to run their own party.
If I didnt love our country , I would say nothing, and let the GOP be led by idiots like him and Sarah Pallin, that would only ensure future GOP losses because America is waking up. But since I do love our country, I hope the GOP comes back home to join the rest of america to make us strong and prosper.
The only difference would be in ideas to reach those goals and that is cool, but at least we would all have a common goal.
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Post by jackoliver on Jan 12, 2009 11:43:26 GMT -5
Clearly the GOP of Bush 43 is no more. What I saw more than hate and lies was fear and mistrust. National security concerns are clearly still important and if someone were to choose a candidate based on how a voter saw them in terms of national security I would consider that an informed choice. But the fear mongering by the party, and the swift boat type activities of the fringe (since I consider the WND types as fringe), left a very bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouth. But that hardly means that anyone who believes in smaller government is a liar or evil. I think there is something slightly evil in torture and what appears to be a general disregard for the rights of individuals and the seperation of powers spelled out in the consitution. But those were sins of the elected and not the sins of the electors. If you think about it the democratic party of Clinton and Kerry is also no more. The baby boomers ideology, born as it was out of the 60's the Vietnam war and Watergate, has been replaced by a different kind of political ideology. That is the ideology of realism and practicality. I think Obama represents pragmatism and the realization that some things are just not doable. We cannot solve all the problems. What we can do is give people opportunity to overcome them. I would expect that the next generation of republican political leaders will be more pragmatic as well. They will probably want to attract the evangelical vote but will not be taken hostage by it. Hopefully they will learn that the politics of fear will not carry a candidate as far as the politics of hope. We sadly have to take on debt right now. But we are facing a very dim future if we let servicing our debt and our blind allegience to the entitlement programs of the sixties completely eat up our GDP. We cannot continue as we have and the party that is able to convince the public that our standard of living needs to be adjusted before it dissapears will be the one that ends on top and stays there the longest. I have to say I aggree with most of the above. I am happy to see conservatives wake up to what the GOP has done to their party and America. You are also correct about the state of the dem party. Hopefully Obama is becoming the new centrist face of the democratic party with the intent of joing all america together. A nation united ,,,what a beautiful thought.
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Post by daleescondido on Jan 12, 2009 18:19:35 GMT -5
Jack, I know youve said your independent before, but you stance appears more dem to me. Thats fine .
I like obamas demeanor but fear his approach to solving the financial mess. In fairness I believe any candidate would do similar to what he is stating . Its kinda a roosevelt approach to the depression When roosevelt took on the depression we were still on a gold standard so currency was strong. We inflated the dollar but started so strong it was doable. Now our currency only represents debt, no assets and is so fragile to the perception of its value at home and abroad. We are putting ourself in a posistion where a foreign government could crash our dollar. There seems to be a ripple effect that might protect us as every one is effected by our economy, but being conservastive I dont like being fragile and think russia or china or the arabs could crash our economy on a whim. I believe spending will be a short term fix and a real crash will come and probably is unstoppable anymore.
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