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Post by VOR on Jan 10, 2009 14:46:04 GMT -5
Blacks represent just 2 percent of GOP convention delegates.
There are just 36 black delegates at this week’s Republican National Convention, “fewer than 2% of the total and a sharp drop-off from 2004,” when 6.7 percent were black. At last week’s Democratic National Convention, 24.5 percent of delegates were black. Recent polls show that about nine out of 10 black voters support Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL).
CM, I guess the main stream media was hiding the facts and completely fooled you right??
24% to 2% is not even close. This is what happens when people don't see the truth and are blind to what is really happening in the world around them.
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Post by VOR on Jan 10, 2009 15:23:43 GMT -5
Assumptions??? Ruin the blog?? Where is Larry--- Larry is this what you just maintained that I was doing when I posted assumptions? Larry clearly likes to take me to task for making assumptions and charachterizing groups, but where is he when others do the exact same conversation stoppers. I guess if it doesnt ruffle Jack and Hatch's feathers Larry stays on mute.
LOL, I want this blog to florish and think CM did a great job creating and thank him wholeheartedly for spending the time and effort. Good job CM!! I don't have any reason to ruin this blog. I did have reason to hurt the voices on the Rick Roberts blog, clearly the lies that were going on there needed to be stopped. Here I want opinions and if you called me a bigot, it would be correct. I am hard headed and it would take a lot of proof to show me that conservatives are not racists and fundamnetalists in their thinking, that they almost ruined our country and destroyed long term relationships around the world. I believe they are bad for this country. I also agree with Larry that Democrats mess up good things by trying to include conservatives and be bi-partisan to be fair and are weak-minded much of the time.
I can be convinced and admit when wrong, but I know for a fact that calling conservatives racists is not a false statement. They believe minorities to be inferior and less then they.
All you have to do is listen to the conservative voices that represent conservatism. Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reily, Michele Malkin and many others show that they don't believe people of other races, religions, sexual preferences and creeds are as worthy as themselves. It is not hard to prove and can easily be googled.
So CM, I want this blog to succeed but I am not a friendly voice to conservatives, which you already know, and will show them the mirror to reflect what they truly look like...of course it is always my opinion which is not always the most popular but I ask people like DJ to fact check me to make me stay on the ball.
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Post by bruce on Jan 10, 2009 16:52:29 GMT -5
I have to agree with dj,the % of blacks at the convention was extremely low.Black talk show host Joe Madison was there and reported that the few blacks in attendance were "encouraged" to sit in areas that were frequently in line of site with the cameras so as to be seen on TV.He also reported that there were huge areas of the attendees that were as white as a klan rally. Also on another note,the 5000 bleacher seats for the inaugaration sold out in 60 seconds.They were $25 a piece. Finally I still can't post on RR's site,even though it shows me signed in. Guess I'm banned,I guess I should be proud of that fact but I wanted to post in response to something Lou said.
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Post by VOR on Jan 10, 2009 18:08:24 GMT -5
Bruce, I'm not laughing at you but at the Rick Roberts blog. Join the club, I proudly was banned about 40-50 times. Even poor ole DJ was banned for being truthful and honest. It is a badge of honor worn by Americans who have the courage to voice a fair and balanced opinion.
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Post by tpfkalarry on Jan 10, 2009 18:27:13 GMT -5
To lay a blank statement saying that a comment is a conversation stopper is incorrect, especially when you see a number of comments following mine. Are conservatives all racists? Are they all bigots? What is the definition of the word bigot? All very good conversation starters. Larry, if I die and you become boss, then feel free to decide what should be posted and what shouldn't as you see fit. Until then, you and I differ completely on the ideologies that run our country. I will post what I believe to be true...or in other words my opinion. I haven't talked to ALL conservatives in our country, but the main theme of the conservative ideology is to belittle the minorities in our country, to abuse and use them at their discretion. See or listen to any conservative talk show host, they are all basically the same in ideology and racism. Did you ever see a Democrat as President veto a bill to help the less fortunate, a minority or someone handicapped? No. Have we seen Republican Presidents do this? Yes. Did you watch the attendance at the Republican National Convention? All older white men. How come? Racism and fundamentalism. For some to overlook this aspect of the conservative ideology is a bias that America needs to bridge. Its really one of the main focuses behind the failure of the Republican Party and a large part of why we are in the situations we endure today in America. Conversation stopper?? I think theres a lot to say. Larry appears to try to walk a line in the sand that he created to stay friends with Jack and Hatch. I don't walk that line. Is calling someone a bigot or a racist name calling? If you own a home and I call you a homeowner is that name calling? I don't think so. Read the definitions of the two words and tell me. I guess I didn't notice I was making a blanket statement about blanket statements. That is fair criticism. I will also admit that I am making a greater effort to walk a line, at least as we get going, and I am not so sure that is the best way to proceed either. You should not think that it is my intention to limit what you say. I offered up my opinion. I do not think you are ruining the blog. Every so often I get it wrong. On occassion I have been known to stretch a point past it being reasonable. It is not the first time I have done it and this is not the first time I have been caught. When you think I am full of it you should continue to let me know. Racism as a concept is very much relative. We are all racist to some degree, or dishonest in our understanding of ourselves. In terms of how we stereotype and how we treat other people than we are more or less racist in relation to what we consider the norm. The accusation of racism is not subjective. It is an absolute. It is also something that you cannot really argue. Immigration, for example, is an issue that deals primarily with one group (even though there are millions of illegal aliens who came here from someplace other than Mexico or South America). Immigration control can be argued as a function of economic welfare, entitlement costs and and any number of effects. Not every concern involving immigration is racially motivated. That doesn't mean the there are not racists who are also anti-immigration or that policies and practices are not designed or implemented in ways that villify the immigrant rather than the programs. We should realize that racist and liberal are not mutually exclusive terms. Not all racists are old white guys either.
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Post by VOR on Jan 10, 2009 19:00:23 GMT -5
Larry, you're right, I being an old white guy too. However, when cerain groups of people attack or belittle a culture for illegal immigration and then use stereotyped fanatic type rhetoric in their attacks it is surely a case of racism. Rick Roberts is a perfect example and so are many, many of his talk show callers. Speaking in a fake Mexican accent, attacking the Mexican culture for the types of foods or customs is definitely racism at its peak without resorting to physical violence. He is just a sample of what most Conservative talk show hosts, who are respected by their intense following represent in our country. Michael Savage, Lou Dobbs, Michele Malkin are more who follow the same line of abuse.
I agree that immigration control as was attempted by Bush, McCain and the Democrats in Congress last year is needed and will soon be brought back and passed. It is a real problem in our country and needs a permanent fix. I am not against immigration control or reform but in saying that, I don't then attack politicians by calling them Jorge or Pedro.
But the conservative bloggers never call out commentators like RR for this type of racism, they find it within status quo.
Look at CM's comment about the racial attendence at the political National conventions. Conservatives are blinded to the truth and only see white. When you looked at the attendance at McCain/Palin rallies...all white. America is a diversified country which needs representation for all, cultures, races and sexual perferences or minorities rights would be taken from them by majorities. We saw that on Prop 8. Its the perfect example of what the founding Fathers where thinking of when they wrote the Bill of Rights. Protect minorities from being subjects of the majority when it comes to civil rights.
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Post by CM on Jan 10, 2009 20:37:21 GMT -5
CM, I guess my "opinion" is generating conversation. You are totally wrong and it is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about concerning the Republican National Convention as described by this writer from a Pittsburgh newspaper. The Republican National Convention shows its true colors Friday, September 05, 2008 By Tony Norman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette According to a piece in yesterday's Washington Post, only 36 of the 2,380 delegates seated at the Republican National Convention are black -- the lowest number in 40 years. That number still sounds pretty high if you ask me. Every time TV cameras panned the crowd at the Xcel Energy Center this week, they kept coming back to the same deranged-looking black guy booing every time a speaker mentioned Barack Obama's name. Gone were the gaggle of excessively happy black folks boogying in the aisles during the last two RNCs. Stung by charges of faking diversity in the past, the GOP didn't even bother going through the motions this year. I mean, how do you one-up the Democrats after they nominated one of them as their standard bearer? Larry Wilmore, the Senior Black Correspondent of "The Daily Show," was interviewed on National Public Radio Wednesday night about the racial vibe at the Xcel Center. "Well, it's not exactly what I would call brother friendly," he told the NPR host before announcing his take on why John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin was a brilliant way to win the African-American vote. I did not use the word “blacks” I used the word “minorities”
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Post by retiredsocal on Jan 10, 2009 20:50:46 GMT -5
"Are conservatives all racists? Are they all bigots? What is the definition of the word bigot?" The definitive answer is NO! Not ALL are racist/bigots! That they exist as conservatives is the same as they exist as liberals. They are out there and I don't care for them! What everyone seems to ignore is are there NO racists amongst the minorities? Do they have a RIGHT to be racist/bigots?"I haven't talked to ALL conservatives in our country, but the main theme of the conservative ideology is to belittle the minorities in our country, to abuse and use them at their discretion."Further proof against using ALL or MOST in your statements. Again I disagree with this statement. What the minorities need is a lift up, not a hand out. Most of the programs that have been passed have been entitlement programs that require little effort to improve. In fact, many do just the opposite. Why are immigrant blacks excelling in the workplace while long term citizen blacks are slow to excel (with some exceptions). It was the Republicans that started the NAACP and Nixon was the President that started affirmative action! What does VOR say about that? www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYK-Why%20MLK%20was%20a%20Republican "Did you ever see a Democrat as President veto a bill to help the less fortunate, a minority or someone handicapped? No. Have we seen Republican Presidents do this? Yes." I would say that the difference are because the programs differ between "entitlements" and "a hand up to improve". There seems to be a philosophical difference between the parties on that issue."Did you watch the attendance at the Republican National Convention? All older white men. How come? Racism and fundamentalism."Political fodder and not true as CM mentioned. Yes, there may have been fewer than previous conventions but still much more than what has been dispersed as political imaging. May this have been because a black was running on the other side?[/color] "For some to overlook this aspect of the conservative ideology is a bias that America needs to bridge. Its really one of the main focuses behind the failure of the Republican Party and a large part of why we are in the situations we endure today in America."There are many Republicans, conservatives and party leaders who admit that the Republican Party of recent years has departed from their platform and base. That IS part of their failure. It isn't the bias you describe."Is calling someone a bigot or a racist name calling?" You have often called bloggers bigots or racist without justification other than they are identified as Republican or conservative! I am one of those that you have so labeled.I have read your early message stating your difference between posting at the RR site and here. I appreciate that and have noticed a difference for the most part. I do expect that there is and will be differences in opinions. I have no problem with that. Where someone makes a racist or bigot statement call them out on it. But don't hang a tag on them just because they have a Republican or conservative view.
Dj mentioned that he is both liberal and conservative depending on the issue. I can relate to that as I sometimes feel the same way. That I question Obama to some degree is healthy. Should he have complete free reigns to do as he wishes? I think not. I have questioned motives of Bush on occasion as I do all leaders. They all should be questioned. To do so is an attempt to keep them honorable!
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Post by CM on Jan 10, 2009 20:57:40 GMT -5
Larry, you're right, I being an old white guy too. However, when cerain groups of people attack or belittle a culture for illegal immigration and then use stereotyped fanatic type rhetoric in their attacks it is surely a case of racism. Rick Roberts is a perfect example and so are many, many of his talk show callers. Speaking in a fake Mexican accent, attacking the Mexican culture for the types of foods or customs is definitely racism at its peak without resorting to physical violence. He is just a sample of what most Conservative talk show hosts, who are respected by their intense following represent in our country. Michael Savage, Lou Dobbs, Michele Malkin are more who follow the same line of abuse. I agree that immigration control as was attempted by Bush, McCain and the Democrats in Congress last year is needed and will soon be brought back and passed. It is a real problem in our country and needs a permanent fix. I am not against immigration control or reform but in saying that, I don't then attack politicians by calling them Jorge or Pedro. But the conservative bloggers never call out commentators like RR for this type of racism, they find it within status quo. Look at CM's comment about the racial attendence at the political National conventions. Conservatives are blinded to the truth and only see white. When you looked at the attendance at McCain/Palin rallies...all white. America is a diversified country which needs representation for all, cultures, races and sexual perferences or minorities rights would be taken from them by majorities. We saw that on Prop 8. Its the perfect example of what the founding Fathers where thinking of when they wrote the Bill of Rights. Protect minorities from being subjects of the majority when it comes to civil rights. I’m glad we share the desire for this blogs success; it is for all our benefit. My positions run the gamut, conservative on many fiscal issues and liberal on many social issues and on some issues maybe more liberal than you. I have never been a registered republican or democrat and never will be. I do fit in the “blinded” category especial when it comes to race not even close. Off topic question: I saw on RR’s blog that you referred to Brad as RR, not sure if you were serious or not. I arrived on the RR blog just a few weeks before the election and never recalled reading Brad before. Aztecs WIN
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Post by VOR on Jan 10, 2009 21:09:32 GMT -5
CM, its good you are open and reasonable on the issues. I am very serious, I think that RR is looking to discredit you and this blog for his own reasons. Its clear something better was needed and your hard work provided that and filled the gap.
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Post by CM on Jan 10, 2009 21:30:51 GMT -5
CM, its good you are open and reasonable on the issues. I am very serious, I think that RR is looking to discredit you and this blog for his own reasons. Its clear something better was needed and your hard work provided that and filled the gap. That’s all the more reason to make the San Diego Scene forum a success. See my latest post on the RR blog, I responded to Brad’s errrr RR’s post to me. Some of my posts have been removed from the RR blog, especially the post pimping the SD Scene. Our message board seems exceptionally slow to me tonight, anybody else notice? If so I will contact Pro Boards and see if we can not get more bandwidth. Let me know.
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Post by VOR on Jan 10, 2009 21:51:17 GMT -5
See Tired, just in your response we see the common conservative practice of what you yourself hate. Stereotyping of minorities as all looking for handouts.
Yes, many minorities have the same qualities as white conservatives, but the problem is they don't have any political influence or power the Republican party has. They don't force those qualities on anyone, especially white conservatives. We have seen over the last two years Christian conservos trying to use the minority card with their senseless "War on Christmas" agenda. All they really want is to FORCE everyone else to act like them and say what they want to hear.
But it is VERY clear you represent the type of conservative I talk about.
On the NAACP-- it is clear they were formed to stop segregation led by the primarily by Southern Democrats. Well, in the 60's the Democratic party spilt and transistioned into what we today know as the Conservative Republican party. As a matter of fact, the only real stronghold in the US of the Conservative Republican party is in the deep South and lower Middle West. You remember this part of America where racism and prejudice still rules.
The first President of the NAACP was Moorfield Storey, who was white, was the president of the NAACP from its founding to 1915. Storey was a long-time classical liberal and Grover Cleveland-Democrat who advocated laissez-faire free markets, the gold standard, and anti-imperialism. Storey consistently and aggressively championed civil rights not only for blacks but also for Native Americans and immigrants (he opposed immigration restrictions). Isn't it funny, he was against all the things today's conservatives hate.
In 2004, Conservative Republican President George W. Bush (2001-2009) became the first sitting U.S. president since Herbert Hoover (1929–1933) to fail to address the NAACP when he declined an invitation to speak to its national convention. Surprise, surprise!!
Richard Nixon did sign into law Affirmative action but was hardly the beginning of laws to protect the rights of minorities. Reacting to the civil rights movement, President John F. Kennedy established a Committee on Equal Employment Opportunity in 1961 and later issued Executive Order 10925, which used the term "affirmative action" to refer to any measures generated to achieve non-discrimination. In 1965, President Johnson issued Executive Order 11246 requiring federal contractors to take affirmative action to “ensure equality of employment opportunity without regard to race, religion and national origin.” Gender was included in the action in 1968.
Tired wants to use words or phrases of words to cover his discrimination and prejudice. Claiming that minorities are only looking for hand outs not a helping hand. LOL. Typical of all conservative arguments. But a basic stereotype. Just as he would say that all Illegal Immigrants are criminals and child abusers or drug runners come to hurt Americans. Maybe they are all leading Hamas members into the country too.
He claims that the news reports about the absence of blacks from the Republican National Convention was political fodder. That the fact that Obama was a black candidate led to the large amounts of black delegates at the DNC. The 24% of Democrat delegates was NOT a record stat for Democrats. 2% is an embarrassement to the American people. But then again so is Tired's prejudicial statement that Black delegates would only come because of a black candidate.
Republicans over the last twenty years have been the same. They have followed the same ideological thinking of discrimination and racism. It has followed the same pattern. Fiscally, they may have changed but socially they are exactly the same fundamentialists they have always been.
Tired you are exactly the type of conservative that I label as a bigot and racist. Just re-read your post and look in the mirror at your fundamentalist views. You opened your mouth and talked, I didn't force it out of you but your views caused you to be my poster boy for all of my opinions. Good job, you just replaced Liar Lori.
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Post by CM on Jan 10, 2009 22:11:16 GMT -5
Finally I still can't post on RR's site,even though it shows me signed in. Guess I'm banned,I guess I should be proud of that fact but I wanted to post in response to something Lou said. A badge to wear proudly. I'm able to post but my post are being deleted. Where's Jack Olive and his free seach (intentional misspelling) rants when we need him.
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Post by retiredsocal on Jan 10, 2009 22:17:39 GMT -5
"See Tired, just in your response we see the common conservative practice of what you yourself hate. Stereotyping of minorities as all looking for handouts." As usual, you twist my words. I did not say minorities were looking for handouts. I stated the politicians were passing entitlement programs rather than programs that really help by giving a hand up!
"But it is VERY clear you represent the type of conservative I talk about." Yet again you wrongly label me!
"In 2004, Conservative Republican President George W. Bush (2001-2009) became the first sitting U.S. president since Herbert Hoover (1929–1933) to fail to address the NAACP when he declined an invitation to speak to its national convention. Surprise, surprise!!" And it was wrong of him!
"Tired wants to use words or phrases of words to cover his discrimination and prejudice. Claiming that minorities are only looking for hand outs not a helping hand. LOL. Typical of all conservative arguments. But a basic stereotype. Just as he would say that all Illegal Immigrants are criminals and child abusers or drug runners come to hurt Americans. Maybe they are all leading Hamas members into the country too."[/i] More twisting of facts! Then followed by a bunch more accusations that have nothing to do with my comments!
"Republicans over the last twenty years have been the same. They have followed the same ideological thinking of discrimination and racism. It has followed the same pattern. Fiscally, they may have changed but socially they are exactly the same fundamentialists they have always been." That is not true! This last administration, including the Republican Party had departed from their long established platform.
"Tired you are exactly the type of conservative that I label as a bigot and racist. Just re-read your post and look in the mirror at your fundamentalist views. You opened your mouth and talked, I didn't force it out of you but your views caused you to be my poster boy for all of my opinions. Good job, you just replaced Liar Lori." Again, more lies, twisted information and name calling! THIS IS MY LAST POST! I AM REMOVING MY MYSELF FROM THIS BLOG! GOOD JOB you Adam Henry!
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Post by bruce on Jan 10, 2009 22:24:21 GMT -5
Hey guys,I think I know a bit about racism,who is racist,manifestations of it,etc.Some of you may recall in my youth I related two horrific incidents that occurred the same day in June,1955 upon my family's arrival in Arizona from Mass. I won't retell it,and I'm not saying I'm an expert,but I've experienced racism,blatent and cruel,and very subtle.Either way,it's not pleasant.I have worked full time since I left college after 2-1/2 years at the age of 20.I've never been on welfare and I was on unemplyment for 4 weeks in 1989.All of my children(4) are college graduates(SDS-2,UCSD-1,Pepperdine-1) .Yet I hear myself classified with pimps,welfare queens,criminals,etc by RR,Limbaugh,Hannity,etc.Of course they don't say blacks,they say "urban poor""underclass""welfare types"etc.I haer people making "jokes" about "painting the white house black""chittlin',fried chicken,and watermelon on the menu at the white house",etc.As far as Conservative vs Liberal,the policies of the liberals are more aligned with the need of lowe income people,regardless of color.I have found a number of conservative Republicans who are not personally racist,and a few liberals who are. I have an advantage in that I don't look particularly black,so I overhear things I might not if I were darker with different features.
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