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Post by jdredd on Jul 5, 2009 16:03:33 GMT -5
I heard a report that our dufus Vice President (Please, please don't let Obama get shot) has verbally given Israel carte blanche to go after Iran's nuclear facilities. Is this true? If ANY "change" at all is needed, it is in our support of the rogue nation of Israel. They are determined to get the world into war with their doctrine of "pre-emptive" strike, which Bush adopted as his own.
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Post by Tired in CV on Jul 5, 2009 16:36:44 GMT -5
I heard a report that our dufus Vice President (Please, please don't let Obama get shot) has verbally given Israel carte blanche to go after Iran's nuclear facilities. Is this true? If ANY "change" at all is needed, it is in our support of the rogue nation of Israel. They are determined to get the world into war with their doctrine of "pre-emptive" strike, which Bush adopted as his own. Well, here is a couple articles: www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3741697,00.html news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090705/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_us_iran_israel (Associated Press) An article I read, and wish I had kept, during the Presidential Campaign was when Biden visited with Israel and told their Prime Minister that Iran was going to get nukes and they need to live with it! What a change in tune. Did Obama set him up to make that statement? Maybe there is a change in heart after Iran's election fiasco! No need for an Iragi to throw a shoe at him, Biden just puts his own shoe in his mouth!
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Post by Tired in CV on Jul 5, 2009 16:43:26 GMT -5
If "Loose Cannon Joe" keeps it up he may unwittingly involve the U.S. in another war! Do you think that their intent is to take out Iran to give real peace to the Middle East? Look at the groups they support!
US defense officials, including Defense Secretary Robert Gates, have warned that a military attack on Iran, whether by the US or Israel, would be blamed on the US and would create a “disastrous backlash.”
If anyone doubts this comment, just look at who is being blamed for their election problems!
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Post by jdredd on Jul 5, 2009 16:56:32 GMT -5
This is one of the reasons Obama was just the "least bad" choice in the 2008 election. Even with his half-baked Health Care reform and Cap & Trade bills, and his trillion-dollar payoffs to Wall Street, Obama was still better than the past-his-prime, "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" McCain.
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Post by Turk on Jul 5, 2009 17:20:10 GMT -5
This is one of the reasons Obama was just the "least bad" choice in the 2008 election. Even with his half-baked Health Care reform and Cap & Trade bills, and his trillion-dollar payoffs to Wall Street, Obama was still better than the past-his-prime, "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" McCain. I don't know if Obama is any better but McCain was a no choice. I like that half-baked reference but Crap and Trade sounds better to me. But to sum it up. The problem is, we have replaced shit with more shit. Hopefully, the new shit won't smell as bad as the old shit. Regardless, shit is shit and all shit stinks. It's the nature of shit.
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Post by Turk on Jul 5, 2009 17:23:29 GMT -5
Biden is correct any sovereign nation can do what they please, but “Say It Ain’t So Joe” could have chosen a better delivery.
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Post by jdredd on Jul 5, 2009 17:24:27 GMT -5
This is one of the reasons Obama was just the "least bad" choice in the 2008 election. Even with his half-baked Health Care reform and Cap & Trade bills, and his trillion-dollar payoffs to Wall Street, Obama was still better than the past-his-prime, "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" McCain. I don't know if Obama is any better but McCain was a no choice. I like that half-baked reference but Crap and Trade sounds better to me. But to sum it up. The problem is, we have replaced shit with more shit. Hopefully, the new shit won't smell as bad as the old shit. Regardless, shit is shit and all shit stinks. It's the nature of shit. LOL
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Post by jdredd on Jul 5, 2009 17:37:51 GMT -5
So Biden says "Israel is free to set it's own course"? We will look the other way if Israel illegally bombs Iran, but we are so quick to condemn Russia in Georgia, or Serbia in Kosovo, or Iraq invading Kuwait? Israel recently bombed Syria without a peep from us. But despite was Biden says, we are complicit in Israel's crimes with the billions of military aid we have provided to them over the years.
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Post by Tired in CV on Jul 5, 2009 22:09:04 GMT -5
Israel: 'Saudi Arabia did not authorize us to use its air space' Sunday July 05, 2009 21:53 by Saed Bannoura - IMEMC & Agencies
The office of Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, issued a statement on Sunday morning saying that the report regarding Saudi Arabia allowing Israel to use its air space in case of an attack against Iran, is baseless.
The report was initially published by the Sunday Times British newspaper. The paper said that Saudi Arabia would not protest Israel using its air space should Israeli fighter jets launch a military assault against Iran.
But the office of Netanyahu said that this report is false and baseless.
The Sunday Times report claimed that Meir Dagan, head of the Israeli Mossad, met discretely with several Saudi officials and got their approval to use the Saudi air space.
- IMEMC News
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Post by jdredd on Jul 6, 2009 0:15:58 GMT -5
Of course Israel has to deny Saudi Arabia gave it permission. It has to let SA pretend it's not cooperating with Isreal. But the Saudis are no friends of the Iranians, who aren't even Arabs. I wonder if Putin will come to the aid of his Iranian clients?
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Post by johng on Jul 6, 2009 14:24:32 GMT -5
Of course Israel has to deny Saudi Arabia gave it permission. It has to let SA pretend it's not cooperating with Isreal. But the Saudis are no friends of the Iranians, who aren't even Arabs. I wonder if Putin will come to the aid of his Iranian clients? No Barry and MO are there right now with the "Reset Button" while the kids get a tour of what lies ahead...
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jul 6, 2009 16:27:48 GMT -5
So Biden says "Israel is free to set it's own course"? We will look the other way if Israel illegally bombs Iran, but we are so quick to condemn Russia in Georgia, or Serbia in Kosovo, or Iraq invading Kuwait? Israel recently bombed Syria without a peep from us. But despite was Biden says, we are complicit in Israel's crimes with the billions of military aid we have provided to them over the years. Good questions! A nation may have a natural right to preemptive strike against another country if that other country has taken actions that indicate pending aggressive actions. But, Article 2, Section 4 of the U.N. Charter bars preemptive wars unless there exists an "acute and imminent actual threat". Could Israel make a case that they live under such a threat? Russia had no concerns of the same sort relative to Georgia. Their soiree was to some extent to slap Georgia back for getting closer to the U.S. Serbia and Kosovo were once part of the same country. Their conflict was as much a civil war as a cultural and religious conflict. They are not related to Israeli war plans. Iraq invaded Kuwait to seize oil fields and take back lands that were once theirs. It also put Saddam closer to the House of Saud Medina and Mecca geographically. You may recall that both Egypt and Saudi Arabia supported the Coalition in that campaign. Iraq's wasn't a preemptive war. It was just crude aggression. Syria has been a conduit of arms and money to terrorists that continually kill Israelis. The leaders of Iran have stated their desires clearly and for the entire world to see. Iran has funneled money and arms via Syria and Lebanon to be used against Israel. Shipping manifests of seized vessels transporting missiles and other arms into Lebanon gave proof that the origins were Syria. Markings and other paperwork indicated that their origins were Iraq and, strangely enough, Iran. Before he became king of Syria, Hafez al-Assad said "Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian Army, with its finger on the trigger, is united... I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." The president of Iran has used similar language. Can an argument be made by Israel that a strike is justified? Given the uselessness of the U.N., the discussion may be painfully moot. If there haven't been effective sanctions in the past, the "international law" has become moot, too. Point is: Does Israel even need a nod from the world?
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Post by jdredd on Jul 6, 2009 17:08:08 GMT -5
I had forgotten the UN charter has a "no preemptive strike unless you really, really, really think it's necessary" clause. And who decides? The striking nation, of course. No wonder the UN is useless except for providing political cover. But Israel will do whatever it wants because it knows the US has it's back. It will be interesting to see how well it does with a long distance strike on dispersed targets in Iran. Maybe, as Isreal's failed 2006 invasion of Lebanon may have been symptomatic of, Isreal is past it's military prime.
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Post by johng on Jul 6, 2009 17:20:58 GMT -5
Maybe Isreal will take the Obama path of "let's chat" instead, afterall that has proven to be so sucessful to this point!
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jul 6, 2009 17:26:37 GMT -5
Is it really better to ask for forgiveness than permission? Could it have been that the political resolve in the Lebanon invasion just wasn't there? It seemed as though at the time. Something else comes to mind about that period, too. The freighters delivering arms to Lebanese ports I spoke of forced Israel into re-thinking things. With so much support from anti-Israel countries, they were faced with a possibly broader conflict and the possibility that the US may not be so supportive in such a case. Is Israel's military power "past its prime"? Or, is it a problem with resolve? They certainly have technologies that do not exist in some of their adversary countries. Israeli politics get in the way of making decisions about security often. Then, too, there is world opinion. I think that, if pressed to the wall, Israel can and will strike out with devastating force. Their enemies poke and jab at them, but, don't seem willing to actually take a swing. That may be, in part at least, why Israel seems to sit on a fence.
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