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Post by jackoliver on Jun 22, 2009 13:01:04 GMT -5
As an independent American, I find President's Obama';s domestic policies right on track. He is attempting to fix the mess of 8 years of far right GOP Buhs/Cheney dissaster.
I dont think it's fair or accurate to call Obama far left,,,the far left has it's dissagreements with the President.
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Post by johng on Jun 22, 2009 13:23:46 GMT -5
As an independent American, I find President's Obama';s domestic policies right on track. He is attempting to fix the mess of 8 years of far right GOP Buhs/Cheney dissaster. I dont think it's fair or accurate to call Obama far left,,,the far left has it's dissagreements with the President. He's a "front man with a talent for speaking" so the Far Left agenda moves swiftly forward. Just look at the results not the speeches.
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CM
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Post by CM on Jun 22, 2009 13:30:21 GMT -5
A couple of days late but I just got my phone call from Tehran. It was brief, the clarity of the line was far better than expected. After quick introductions my friend’s cousin (I will refer to him as cousin) spoke of their plight. I asked few questions, the call lasted less than 4 minutes.
CM – What was the mood like yesterday?
Cousin – Anger, fear and frustration. We do not have a leader, 1,000 of people demonstrating independently. Only 10,000 demonstrators compare to Friday’s 100,000
CM – Was the government announced crack down successful?
Cousin – Yes, groups of 5 or more are ordered to disperse, if we do not disperse quickly we are beat. The Basiji (underground police) are everywhere.
CM – Could Moussavi be your leader?
Cousin – No, he can not do anything, the Supreme Leader runs the country
CM – You need to get rid of the Supreme Leader then
Cousin – no response
CM - Is Hamas involved?
Cousin – Some, maybe you have seen on the news people in everyday clothing dragging, kicking and beating other people, that is the Basiji. They not do wear uniforms; they do not have any identification. Technically they are not working for the government but they are paid by the government. The government is very powerful.
CM – Will the demonstrations subside?
Cousin – Probably, if not the 1,000 and 1,000 will die. In the weeks or months ahead many people will be missing. The Basiji takes pictures of the crowds, when they identify faces in the pictures they will go to their homes. I need to go
CM – One last question, should Obama make a strong statement in support of the people?
Cousin – We would like that and it would help our people, but the government will then blame the US for the demonstrations. The government would use Obama’s words to their advantage and it would give the government encouragement for violence.
CM – Thank you for your time, be safe
Cousin – Allahu Akbar
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Post by dj on Jun 22, 2009 14:29:57 GMT -5
CM – One last question, should Obama make a strong statement in support of the people? Cousin – We would like that and it would help our people, but the government will then blame the US for the demonstrations. The government would use Obama’s words to their advantage and it would give the government encouragement for violence. CM – Thank you for your time, be safe Cousin – Allahu Akbar CM, you're awesome. Any way to forward all this to Sean Hannity?? He's off-the-rails nuts. True definition of War Hawk. He has NO CONCEPTION of the negative effect on the people of Iran if the U.S. acts too harshly toward the powers that be in Iran.
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Post by bruce on Jun 22, 2009 14:44:42 GMT -5
Cracks In The Wall, Any movement away from hard line fundamentalism would have to be considered in our interest. If the movement is brought about by the collective dissonance of the masses it holds even greater opportunity. Regime change can be accomplished in any number of ways. I think the passing of the torch from the generation that took US hostages to the generation that wants a better relationship with the west is long overdue. This may yet turn out to be a significant event (a game changing moment) akin to the mellowing of Khadaffy. The less we do right now the better chance we have of not blowing it. I find it more than a little ironical (I know that is not a real word) that "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran," McCain is complaining the administration is not doing enough. I guess his underlying message was that we should use "smart" bombs that only kill the hard-liners. Do you think he has aged past the point where he would catch how hypocritical he appears? Welcome back with your incisive and intelligent posts.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jun 22, 2009 15:21:35 GMT -5
Without putting too strong a point on it, there was an unspoken strategic plus for getting into Iraq in 2003 which perhaps may be bearing fruit in the near future. Do you think this may effectively isolate Syria?
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CM
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Post by CM on Jun 22, 2009 16:12:09 GMT -5
If there was an opportunity to be critical of Obama I think everyone here knows me well enough that I would take. I have now heard a recurring theme from 4 Iranians and from the streets of Tehran. Whatever Obama’s motives are at this point is immaterial he is taking the correct path thus far. My impression no matter the outcome or the level of violence the US needs to stay out.
Speaking of motives I’m not sure if Hannity really believe his position or will do anything to discredit Obama, I don’t know the man’s heart and can not pass judgment. It would be great if he could speak to the Iranian people or a least my friends, not sure he would listen or it would make a difference.
Larry, welcome back.
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Post by jackoliver on Jun 22, 2009 16:17:56 GMT -5
If there was an opportunity to be critical of Obama I think everyone here knows me well enough that I would take. I have now heard a recurring theme from 4 Iranians and from the streets of Tehran. Whatever Obama’s motives are at this point is immaterial he is taking the correct path thus far. My impression no matter the outcome or the level of violence the US needs to stay out. Speaking of motives I’m not sure if Hannity really believe his position or will do anything to discredit Obama, I don’t know the man’s heart and can not pass judgment. It would be great if he could speak to the Iranian people or a least my friends, not sure he would listen or it would make a difference. Larry, welcome back. thanks for the update cm. It does appear Pres. Obama is doing the right thing. Keeping the US out of other countries politics. Gee what a concept. As for your Hannity remark, if you think Hannity doesnt believe his own propaganda, than what is he doing? Lying for the GOP? And everday, hannity finds something real or not real to bash our president, why, I know why,,,but he is doing everything to discredit Obama and the democrats as a whole every single day for years. He's been doing this for years, nothing new. His motives are pretty obviose to democrats.
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CM
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Post by CM on Jun 22, 2009 16:39:15 GMT -5
CM, same question. Also, do you know of any Iranians that wish they were there right now? I did ask the question of one friend, he and his family visited their families In Iran December 2008, the quick answer “Hell No.” I did not know 2/3 of the population is under 35 which means most were not alive during the last revolution. Also Iran is the most technically advanced nation in the Middle East, per capita more people own computers than the US. Iranians are avid bloggers age range 18-25 average 60,000 post per year.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jun 22, 2009 17:53:08 GMT -5
I think you're right, Larry, about movement from fundamentalist hardline. But, from what I have read, Moussavi is not going to be a free agent that can ignore the Supreme Leader's, Khameini, dictates. He seems to have the popular support from young people, as you said- (not) the generation that took U.S. hostages and wants a better relationship with the west. But, are they really saying NO! to Ahmedinejab or is it just YES! to what they think will be change? On McCain, not arguing the point, but, I didn't hear him hint at bombing anyone in Iran. Was there something you saw or read? While I do think his harder-than-Obama stance probably would backfire, since I also think a wait-and-see approach may be best, I didn't get the message that he wants some kind of military action or overly stiff sanctions. If somehow, a moderate regime in Tehran should emerge from all this, one that may or may not be more open to working with the west, but one that is less of a threat to the region and turns its back on supporting terrorism or any form of extremism, do you see some kind of impact on Syria? What might the implications be for Iraq's continuing internal problems? I can't help but wonder how Russia's stake in all this may change. Putin kind of got used to the Iranian regime. Recall Putin's coziness with Tehran in October of 2007 and his defense of Iran's nuclear ambitions. This has got to have think tanks working overtime.
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Post by jackoliver on Jun 22, 2009 17:59:09 GMT -5
Id like to thank all the info, history and personal historical observations on this topic from everyone here., VERY INFORMATIVE. I wish I had more time for research to add to all your posts. Im learning sometimes the best action is no action, especialy when countries are evolving. Of course with North Korea is different because of the threats. I think some inaction might go well there too, I think NK is bluffing like a child crying for attention. Perhaps we can shoot down thier missile when launched at Hawaii and then tell them , 'what missile? We didnt see no stinking missile?"
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Post by tpfkalarry on Jun 22, 2009 18:05:34 GMT -5
CM, I really like my job but I have been running on fumes as of late. It is good to be back.
Hatch, It is all kind of relative. Iran is never going to become Jordan or Egypt but anything short of the virtual jihad of our little Ringo Starr lookalike has to be a good thing. What CM says about the Iranian population is important to how this may turn out. What would be preferred is that the clergy share more power with elected officials that represent the generations to come. From what I hear there are more than a few Iranians who look at the prosperity enjoyed under the shah with fond memories. We need a Shah Palavi type who is in favor with the clergy.
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Post by Tired in CV on Jun 22, 2009 18:28:26 GMT -5
good point about McCain. I think he comes from the old GOP hardline of no diplomacy and bomb them all and let God sort them out. America has taken back control of our country. The GOP NEVER had that as a policy! You just like to make this stuff up as you go along, don't you! Bomb......them out. Where did you learn this line? From your long family of military members? Good democrats, yes, good democrats! Has American taken back control of our country? I think it has suffered internally a great deal and the Government is on the verge of taking control FROM THE PEOPLE! The trade off of more social programs at the expense of more government power is eventually going to go into overdrive and the people will lose!
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jun 22, 2009 18:37:56 GMT -5
Larry, I've spoken to and read about pro-Shaw types, too. As far as a existing population that lived during the Shaw's time and still long for those days, those numbers are diminishing. Some 70% of the population is younger than 35. What CM said about Iran being technologically advanced rings true with what I have learned, too. They have a good education system and some pretty good universities. I suppose that a nation of people that twitters as much as Iranians do must be much more worldly than others. I don't know for sure, of course. It may be because we are not seeing the expression of similar desires for change in other muslim countries if only because of lack of access to the internet.
People in the west have to realize that Islam is the religion of the vast majority of the Iranian population. It is important to remember the entire name of the country: Islamic Republic of Iran. I would think it is only natural that devout muslims would always defer to their clerical leadership in one way or another. But, we have been shocked with public calls for Khameini's ouster and even death, either by inference or direct threats. This is unheard of in Iran, I believe.
I read recently that the Iranian security agency is basically the same as the old Savak. The real difference is that an Ayatollah's picture hangs in every office instead of Reza Palavi's. Of course, too, there are no longer any CIA types working there, too. They still use the same brutal tactics.
If a change in Iran comes about that somehow wants to back down from an aggressive stance towards Israel and nuclear weapon development and/or acquisition, this will change Russia's dynamic considerably. It puts them in yet another "check" position. A Checkmate may not be in the foreseeable future, but, one can dream...
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Post by EscapeHatch on Jun 22, 2009 18:40:44 GMT -5
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