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Post by nikki on Nov 23, 2009 17:44:25 GMT -5
Since the offending messages were deleted by mods I can only assume they were obscene or personally insulting. Good to know his departure was of his own accord, but I hope it wasn't because he was simply too brusque or contrary. DJ, That is soooooo disingenuous of you to NOW blame the moderators HERE. You know very well that VOR and JO were responsible for the apoplectic vileness allowed through their "free speech" on the RR site that was responsible for taking down that site, but that was no problem to you THEN. In spite of that, they were invited to participate here. I think their frustration was of their own genesis. They could not "troll" the way they really wanted to here. A vacuum has now been created.
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Post by Turk on Nov 23, 2009 17:46:16 GMT -5
Since the offending messages were deleted by mods I can only assume they were obscene or personally insulting. Good to know his departure was of his own accord, but I hope it wasn't because he was simply too brusque or contrary. I don’t recall ever an obscene post by JO on this board. Personally insulting, there have been many JO posts and JO had been warned countless times. I feel I tried to the best of my ability, even to show JO how he could word his posts differently, all to no avail. Someone might be having a bad day and go off the rails, that happens but when it becomes habitual then there’s a problem. My history with JO goes back 3 years, part of me is sorry to see him go, but JO made the right decision for him and the board.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Nov 23, 2009 17:56:26 GMT -5
I echo that Turk has been lenient. But, I will go one step further. Turk actually tried to work with the guy. Jack Oliver may have been a pill and deliberately provoking, but, his only point in posting was for rattling cages.
I hope that the personal antagonisms still seen here will abate. They serve no purpose.
Just a little Saintly advice to us all.
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Post by dolphie on Nov 23, 2009 18:07:53 GMT -5
Since the offending messages were deleted by mods I can only assume they were obscene or personally insulting. Good to know his departure was of his own accord, but I hope it wasn't because he was simply too brusque or contrary. I don’t recall ever an obscene post by JO on this board. Personally insulting, there have been many JO posts and JO had been warned countless times. I feel I tried to the best of my ability, even to show JO how he could word his posts differently, all to no avail. Someone might be having a bad day and go off the rails, that happens but when it becomes habitual then there’s a problem. My history with JO goes back 3 years, part of me is sorry to see him go, but JO made the right decision for him and the board. Don't you dare start questioning yourself, Turk. You have been MORE than fair, forgiving and giving. dj is a bit full of himself with that post. He knows who you are and how you work these boards. He also knows that contrary and brusque are not issues that invites an exit from these boards. dale just hasn't been around a lot of late (thankfully that is changing) so he has not seen you all deleting posts, modifying posts, counseling, and working with JO. We all have our generous days and our not so generous days. I have never seen you or the other mods penalize us for being human and seeing things differently. Heck - I have to put up with JG's monthly chauvinistic attacks ! If you were such a meanie - he would have been sent to the dark realms beyond the mancave! Or you would have had a kick in the shins! ;D As you said - he left of his own free will and it is a permanent goodbye.
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Post by dolphie on Nov 23, 2009 18:18:45 GMT -5
I echo that Turk has been lenient. But, I will go one step further. Turk actually tried to work with the guy. Jack Oliver may have been a pill and deliberately provoking, but, his only point in posting was for rattling cages. I hope that the personal antagonisms still seen here will abate. They serve no purpose. Just a little Saintly advice to us all. I must disagree, EH. You are being too generous and you did not see some of the posts. I saw a few - before the mods had a chance to delete them. He was nasty, hateful and vile. There was nothing "rattling of cages" about it. JD rattles cages. dj rattles cages. JG rattles cages with some of us. I rattle cages. Plus - to have that kind of negativity (that JO brought to the boards) causes people to not want to join and it causes people to become tired of opening the door to encounter non-stop negativity. I, personally, do not come to these boards to see constant attacks. The LAST thing I want to do is open up vile posts after I have put in a 16hr+ day. I originally joined because of the wit, humor, incredible information, the characters on the board and the ability to grow my information base. I have come to like this community - warts and all. In my world of forums (mind you I date back to bulletin boards) JO & bruce both would have been gone a long time ago as they are the very definition of trolls. They post to antagonize, they have nothing solid to contribute, they post hatefully and with vile. They haunt specific posters and take things to a personal level. Turk is far more lenient than the old BB rules and has been EXTREMELY patient with posters. As far as the sniping - there are obviously people with agendas from the past. It will take time to heal those interactions. We all have good days and off days. Yet, you must admit - things are better as far as the majority are concerned.
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Post by Turk on Nov 23, 2009 18:31:38 GMT -5
I don’t recall ever an obscene post by JO on this board. Personally insulting, there have been many JO posts and JO had been warned countless times. I feel I tried to the best of my ability, even to show JO how he could word his posts differently, all to no avail. Someone might be having a bad day and go off the rails, that happens but when it becomes habitual then there’s a problem. My history with JO goes back 3 years, part of me is sorry to see him go, but JO made the right decision for him and the board. Don't you dare start questioning yourself, Turk. You have been MORE than fair, forgiving and giving. dj is a bit full of himself with that post. He knows who you are and how you work these boards. He also knows that contrary and brusque are not issues that invites an exit from these boards. dale just hasn't been around a lot of late (thankfully that is changing) so he has not seen you all deleting posts, modifying posts, counseling, and working with JO. We all have our generous days and our not so generous days. I have never seen you or the other mods penalize us for being human and seeing things differently. Heck - I have to put up with JG's monthly chauvinistic attacks ! If you were such a meanie - he would have been sent to the dark realms beyond the mancave! Or you would have had a kick in the shins! ;D As you said - he left of his own free will and it is a permanent goodbye. There's no question JO’s departure is the right thing. I think DJ’s measurement of evil is Gary from Bishop anyone less has a halo somewhere. Dale witnessed JO’s destruction on the old RR board, when I arrived there were 30-50 people posting daily slowly JO chased everyone way, at the boards final collapse only JO and I remained. JO had promised on many occasions to change his attacking delivery, he never kept his promise, your mods will ensure he keeps his promise never to return here.
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Post by lou on Nov 23, 2009 18:45:27 GMT -5
Since the offending messages were deleted by mods I can only assume they were obscene or personally insulting. Good to know his departure was of his own accord, but I hope it wasn't because he was simply too brusque or contrary. DJ, no "brusque remarks" were not the issue and definitely not obscenity. He did, sometimes, border on the deeply personal when "expressing" his opinion in opposition with a poster he did not agree. In the beginning, some hurtful things were written and he was accordingly censured with "time-outs" as it were. I just think he got tired of having his arguments decimated with factual rebuttals.
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Post by lou on Nov 23, 2009 18:50:03 GMT -5
Since the offending messages were deleted by mods I can only assume they were obscene or personally insulting. Good to know his departure was of his own accord, but I hope it wasn't because he was simply too brusque or contrary. I don’t recall ever an obscene post by JO on this board. Personally insulting, there have been many JO posts and JO had been warned countless times. I feel I tried to the best of my ability, even to show JO how he could word his posts differently, all to no avail. Someone might be having a bad day and go off the rails, that happens but when it becomes habitual then there’s a problem. My history with JO goes back 3 years, part of me is sorry to see him go, but JO made the right decision for him and the board. I absolutely agree you extended to him every courtesy and great leniency in allowing him to post here. I think he felt alone and has now gone to sites that support his opinions.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Nov 23, 2009 19:07:05 GMT -5
Dolphie, if you wish to parse terms that are not strong enough for you, have at it. But, know that I am in agreement with your comments about Jack Oliver, but, just choose to not go over dramatic about it. My comments were for one purpose: to commend Turk, not ressurrect the dead.
I am glad you brought up Bruce. It is too bad about Bruce. There was a time when he seemed a bit more willing to discuss things than to resort to drive by shootings. There was a turning point... somewhere.
As far as things being better for the majority, volo vidi, we'll see.
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Post by Jack on Nov 23, 2009 19:17:25 GMT -5
Since the offending messages were deleted by mods I can only assume they were obscene or personally insulting. Good to know his departure was of his own accord, but I hope it wasn't because he was simply too brusque or contrary. As long as they choose their words carefully while forming their arguments, I can pretty much tolerate any number of pricks, jerks, malcontents and/or socialist liberal whack jobs. Too bad we never set up an alternate (enter at your own risk) site to display evidence of the rants, insults and vile offerings from Jack Oliver that were deleted from this board. I can guarantee you that neither Turk nor I deleted his comments simply because they were contrary to our opinions or political beliefs. VOR could never pass muster with the Proboards TOS or maintain the civility required to discuss issues with the other members of this board. Jack Oliver, unfortunately, finally morphed into a junior version of VOR and left before he was permanently banned.
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Post by dolphie on Nov 23, 2009 20:05:44 GMT -5
Dolphie, if you wish to parse terms that are not strong enough for you, have at it. But, know that I am in agreement with your comments about Jack Oliver, but, just choose to not go over dramatic about it. My comments were for one purpose: to commend Turk, not ressurrect the dead. I am glad you brought up Bruce. It is too bad about Bruce. There was a time when he seemed a bit more willing to discuss things than to resort to drive by shootings. There was a turning point... somewhere. As far as things being better for the majority, volo vidi, we'll see. **relaxes stance** Ok, I read you as taking Turk to task ... I had my sleeves rolled up and ready to tussle on the side of a good decision made with nearly a year of patience supporting it. This is what I take task with: "Jack Oliver may have been a pill and deliberately provoking, but, his only point in posting was for rattling cages." Posting to "rattle" cages and posting vile stuff are two different things. The first implies the mod was not as patient as possible and lacked in the handling thereof. It also implies that the mod was allowing annoyance to interfere with justifiable reasons for removing a poster. As far as bruce is concerned, I still do not see it. I went through the majority of the old posts (beginning of the boards through to today and some of the dead threads) and saw him the same on those. The only place I saw him civil was on the nostalgia thread. I realize we all have our own takes - and thankfully so. I just have not seen good from his part - except for the above mentioned nostalgia thread.
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Post by bruce on Nov 24, 2009 8:30:57 GMT -5
Dolphie, if you wish to parse terms that are not strong enough for you, have at it. But, know that I am in agreement with your comments about Jack Oliver, but, just choose to not go over dramatic about it. My comments were for one purpose: to commend Turk, not ressurrect the dead. I am glad you brought up Bruce. It is too bad about Bruce. There was a time when he seemed a bit more willing to discuss things than to resort to drive by shootings. There was a turning point... somewhere. As far as things being better for the majority, volo vidi, we'll see. The "turning point" was when I posted a positive opinion about the female officer and I was dumped on by dolphie and others as being sexist. I saw the writing on the wall.
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Post by Turk on Nov 24, 2009 9:42:26 GMT -5
Bruce, for what’s it’s worth, let it go and move on
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Post by Turk on Nov 24, 2009 13:25:21 GMT -5
I had a day to formulate my goodbye to Jack Oliver. So here it is JO, hold your breath JO, wait for it, here it is:
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Post by Jack on Nov 24, 2009 13:54:30 GMT -5
I had a day to formulate my goodbye to Jack Oliver. So here it is JO, hold your breath JO, wait for it, here it is: Worthy of a Pulitzer - I've always believed that sometimes less is more.
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