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Post by jdredd on Nov 30, 2009 13:16:30 GMT -5
Yes, the UNEP proposal is a power grab...but it is grabbing power from who? World domination by Multinational Corporations and the ultra-wealthy, of course. So for me, it's a big SO WHAT? JD, If you think UNEP will get rid of the Multi-national corporations and ultra-wealthy, you are sadly mistaken. What it means is that freedoms gained will be lost, our sovereignty will be no longer, the regular people are who will suffer. Damn, you just keep making good points this morning, D.
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Post by dolphie on Nov 30, 2009 13:21:26 GMT -5
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577746,00.html Climate Change Scientists Admit Dumping Data Monday, November 30, 2009 NASA Scientists at the University of East Anglia have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based. It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years. The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit CRU was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation. The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building. The admission follows the leaking of a thousand private emails sent and received by Professor Phil Jones, the CRU’s director. In them he discusses thwarting climate sceptics seeking access to such data. In a statement on its website, the CRU said: "We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added ( quality controlled and homogenized) data." The CRU is the world’s leading center for reconstructing past climate and temperatures. Climate change sceptics have long been keen to examine exactly how its data were compiled. That is now impossible. Continue reading at The Times of London +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ One does not destroy original data. That is scientific law (not officially - yet any TRUE scientist will preserve data). When it comes to numbers accummulated over time, the original data is not destroyed - it is required to support later theories/etc. As new tools come available, methods of analysis improve. One especially does not destroy original data when there are skeptics in abundance.
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Post by dolphie on Nov 30, 2009 13:31:28 GMT -5
What sickens me, JD, is that there are many ways we - as humans - could be cleaner and wiser in how we utilize resources.
I want a clean ocean, I want to camp without picking up lazy people's trash, I want to go for walks and not see a bunch of cigarette butts all over, I want to swim in rivers and the ocean without getting a face full of garbage floating along, I want clean air to breathe.
I do not want some corrupt, money seeking, money sucking, high profile addicted body getting fatter as the real issues are avoided.
I do not see common sense at play. The bodies in power live in a fantasy world - not in reality.
Yes, alternative sources of energy are important - that does not mean throwing away current resources as they do a rush job on what should be an energy resource.
Thinking, engineering, testing - put effort and energy into the process.
But using the environment as a means to fatten already fat cats - DISGUSTS me.
They do not care about our oceans, rivers, lakes, trees, air, etc. They just want power.
They want to bring our quality of living down to 3rd world countries rather than the other way around.
I also do not think it is a one fits all system either. Solar Panels help - but not in areas with minimal sun. Nuclear energy is clean and safe - yet we have people who want to make money off the environmental movement who see no monies made if these facilities are created - so they fight the facilities.
We have government playing with water. Etc.
I think we need to throw all the bums out and clean up their mess. We can do it - we just need to unite our front and do it.
I also think it is a matter of shear laziness on the part of many - they were not raised right by parents or are just plain too spoiled to do the right thing.
Litter is one of the biggest sources of pollution - whether it is corporate, individual or country. Litter (in my broad sense of meaning) includes air litter as well.
If we start with cleaning up after ourselves, that is a good step forward.
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Post by jdredd on Nov 30, 2009 13:49:20 GMT -5
Can't disagree with much you've said, except maybe for the nuclear power stuff, and the idea we can bring the third world up to our standard of living, which I don't believe the world's resources could support. But I do think we need skeptics about ANY bandwagon, even the Environmental bandwagon.
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Post by dolphie on Nov 30, 2009 13:53:25 GMT -5
Can't disagree with much you've said, except maybe for the nuclear power stuff, and the idea we can bring the third world up to our standard of living, which I don't believe the world's resources could support. But I do think we need skeptics about ANY bandwagon, even the Environmental bandwagon. There is a difference between nuclear power and nuclear energy. Canada and France both engage nuclear energy. It is clean and efficient. I need to do some more reading on that topic (anyone on the boards with good links would be appreciated). Nuclear power is ugly, dirty and I wish there was no such weapon in the world. But that is a dream - not reality.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Nov 30, 2009 16:09:46 GMT -5
I know a similar story was posted already. I think, though, that the timing is hilarious... ClimateGate !! Click the blue headline to read the rest of the story. This, folks, comes just days after we learned about the CRU email hacking fiasco. Mike's nature trick?? Hey, Obama, you thinking about going to Copenhagen NOW?
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Post by johng on Nov 30, 2009 16:15:45 GMT -5
Of course Obama going to Copenhagen has no link to reality or lost data to support the Gorebility of Climate Change.
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Post by Jack on Nov 30, 2009 16:29:59 GMT -5
Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore www.infowars.com/lord-monckton-shut-down-the-un-arrest-al-gore/Excerpts: Appearing on The Alex Jones Show yesterday, Lord Christopher Monckton went further than ever before in his vehement opposition to the elitists running the climate change scam, calling for the UN to be shut down and for fraudulent peddlers of global warming propaganda like Al Gore to be arrested and criminally prosecuted. Monckton said that those who are threatening to shut down economies, bankrupt nations, and deepen the problems of the third world by implementing draconian policies in the name of global warming should be indicted, prosecuted and imprisoned “for a very long time”. “The fraudsters and racketeers from Al Gore to the people at the University of East Anglia who have been making their fortune at the expense of taxpayers and the little guy,” should be criminally charged, said Monckton, in response to the climategate scandal. “We the people have got to rise up worldwide, found a party in every country which stands for freedom and make sure we fight this bureaucratic communistic world government monster to a standstill – they shall not pass,” he added. Monckton said that the United Nations should be “closed down,” adding that he talked to a senior UN ambassador in Canada who told him that he no longer saw any purpose in the UN and it exists “only to enrich itself at the expense of the nations it claims to serve, it’s time it was brought to an end.” “We would all save billions if we shut down the UN and just about all of its hideous bureaucracy,” said Monckton.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Nov 30, 2009 16:33:22 GMT -5
Move the UN to Darfur! There would be much lower overhead costs and many more people that would actually like to have UN-ners around!
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Post by johng on Nov 30, 2009 16:37:54 GMT -5
Good Idea! Put George Clooney in charge and make Brad Pit Deputy Dick Head.
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Post by EscapeHatch on Nov 30, 2009 20:29:11 GMT -5
For those that don't get out that way, global warming is happening on Mars, Jupiter, Pluto and on the moon Triton. The polar ice caps on Mars are melting. Martian polar bears have all but disappeared. I am no longer going to doubt global warming. Not in our neighborhood.
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beegee
Junior Member
Posts: 27
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Post by beegee on Nov 30, 2009 20:29:29 GMT -5
The TOTUS is telling Obabble to go to Copenhagen, so he will!
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Post by Turk on Nov 30, 2009 20:43:05 GMT -5
The TOTUS is telling Obabble to go to Copenhagen, so he will! But will he back-in bend-over or walk-in standing upright?
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Post by Turk on Nov 30, 2009 20:44:25 GMT -5
For those that don't get out that way, global warming is happening on Mars, Jupiter, Pluto and on the moon Triton. The polar ice caps on Mars are melting. Martian polar bears have all but disappeared. I am no longer going to doubt global warming. Not in our neighborhood. So what are you saying Hatch, spit it out, are you telling me Al Gore’s hot air extends to the universe. Give em a Nobel Prize and the world will believe it.
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Post by Turk on Dec 1, 2009 10:50:12 GMT -5
Germans tried to warn us of Climate FraudBut Der Speigel, the German news magazine, tried to blow the whistle on this climate fraud more than two years ago. In May of 2007, it published a story titled, “Not the End of the World As We Know It.” The story pointed out that Svente Arrhenius, the Swedish chemist who first posited the Greenhouse, had seen global warming as a good thing, with “better climates” potentially making poor harvests and famine a thing of the past. canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/17358
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