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Post by Jack on Jan 19, 2009 13:48:35 GMT -5
I fully agree with the President's action to commute the sentences of Border Patrol Agents, Ramos and Compean. He did not pardon them, but reduced what were extremely lengthy sentences that, due to solitary confinement, were barbaric in nature. "Bush commutes sentences of former US border agents" www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D95QC5OO0&show_article=1"WASHINGTON (AP) - In his final acts of clemency, President George W. Bush on Monday commuted the prison sentences of two former U.S. Border Patrol agents whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited fierce debate about illegal immigration." "Bush's decision to commute the sentences of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, who tried to cover up the shooting, was welcomed by both Republican and Democratic members of Congress. They had long argued that the agents were merely doing their jobs, defending the American border against criminals. They also maintained that the more than 10-year prison sentences the pair was given were too harsh." I believe that the commutation will still allow them to pursue appeals of their original convictions.
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Post by CM on Jan 19, 2009 13:57:19 GMT -5
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Post by CM on Jan 19, 2009 14:02:40 GMT -5
I hope they get a book and movie deal and become stinking rich.
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Post by tpfkalarry on Jan 19, 2009 15:49:05 GMT -5
Jack, Is this the blind squirrel thing? I agree that he got this one right.
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Post by VOR on Jan 19, 2009 16:08:27 GMT -5
They still shot a Mexican illegally, then tried to cover it up. I guess conservatives are OK with police abuse and coverups as long as its against minorities. Read the transcript word for word. They are still convicted felons and can never serve in a government position.
Who will commute Bush and Cheney's sentences when convicted?
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Post by daleescondido on Jan 19, 2009 16:50:33 GMT -5
What we learned from this is never shoot a drug runner unless you can be certain the wounds are mortal. Actually an old truth renewed by our liberal courts.
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Post by CM on Jan 19, 2009 16:52:49 GMT -5
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Post by tpfkalarry on Jan 19, 2009 20:20:09 GMT -5
Is This Justice?
Whether justice was served in any case seems best decided in hindsight. Did Ramos and Compean get what they deserve? I guess the answer to that question depends upon your view of the related issues.
Did Compean and Ramos get a break?:
Sure they did. They caught a break when the bullet only struck the known drug runner in the buttocks. Half a foot here or there and they might have struck a kidney or his spine. If the drug dealer is killed or paralyzed this is a different case.
From everything I have read they did get a fair hearing. We may complain that more of the victims past should have been introduced, yet if the agents were the victims we would not want to see them put on trial. They received a trial by a jury of their peers and they availed themselves of their possible appeals.
Was their sentence just?
Of course it was not. Even the prosecutor didn't feel ten years in prison was fair. But it wasn't like they got off with a slap on the wrist. Two years in a federal penitentiary for border patrol agents is clearly no picnic. They lost their careers, they have a record, and they have had their lives on display.
This one seems to have worked out pretty much the way it should have. It should not take them two months to actually get released.
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Post by Jack on Jan 19, 2009 20:42:56 GMT -5
Larry,
There's a quote from the 1983 movie, "The Star Chamber", that I've posted a few times in the past: "Someone has taken justice and hidden it in the law."
Aside from the extreme length of the sentences, the real cruelty of their incarceration was the requirement for solitary confinement to protect them from the general population. From what I've heard today, it seems that the conditions of the commutation did not call for immediate release since Bush is still unconvinced of their innocence. The good news is that they will still be able to pursue their appeals. I'm sure there are more than a few cockroaches that are dreading the moment when that light comes on.
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Post by CM on Jan 19, 2009 21:12:11 GMT -5
It is disingenuous to suggest this is a conservative versus liberal issue. If that is your chosen course then fair comparison is reasonable, let’s start with Mark Rich and exchange swats from there. Bush made a smart decision, foremost the crime did not fit the punishment and don’t give me this law enforcement is held to higher standard garbage, if you can not state the higher standard law, blow your smoke elsewhere. It could be said one mistake these guys made was NOT killing the illegal Mexican drug smuggler. I know of zero local or federal law enforcement officers that do not have very quick access to a stone cold weapon to plant on a deceased bad guy. The crime has nothing to do with minorities. The drug smuggler is not a US citizen. If agents were wrong and they lied about it, double wrong. If this were a local SD cop he would have been given four weeks without pay at most. Did anyone really read word for word 2,100 pages of transcript? Case closed, justice served and immediate release makes this an America I can be proud of.
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Post by VOR on Jan 19, 2009 21:28:47 GMT -5
Well Dale then half the people living in Escondido should be shoot down without a trial. Typical moron. Dale is the type that believes that the police should be judge and jury too.
Compeon and Ramos should have stayed in jail forever. They broke the law, tried to cover it up. Their are the law, not two regular guys. Look what OJ Simpson got.....Oh oh thats right. OJ is black. Its a joke.
Well now we are rid of conservatives in the White House and things will be different. No more torture and no more Gitmo.
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Post by VOR on Jan 19, 2009 21:32:46 GMT -5
CM too wants to kill drug dealers. Shoot them on sight CM? Maybe we should shoot everyone committing a felony. No more trials, no judges....nothing, just an idiot with a badge and a gun to shoot them down. It IS A CONSERVATIVE VERSUS LIBERAL ISSUE, JUST AS TORTURE IS. Just as immigration and discrimination and racism are. Who fights for civil rights and who is against them. Figure it out, its simple, just read World Net Daily or Town Hall or turn on Fox News.
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Post by CM on Jan 19, 2009 21:39:07 GMT -5
Don’t talk to me about immigration issues, I promise you have more knowledge than you will ever know and it is from personal experiences.
I think it is inappropriate to call anyone a moron or an idiot; my hope is we are ALL of higher level.
You figure it out, I can put you in the immigration trenches you have never known and it hurts.
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Post by bruce on Jan 19, 2009 21:44:57 GMT -5
There are two sides to every story.I don't have a big problem with them being released,but on the other hand they were not"just doing their job".They shot him in the back while he was headed back into Mexico,and he may well have been on Mexican soil.He was a"bad guy" smuggling drugs,but they didn't know that.In other words it's not a clear cut good guys vs. bad guys story.They also covered up information.That being said,I'm not sure the sentence fits their crimes.As for solitary confinement,the authorities really had no choice.They were in danger in the general population.Either way there would be criticism.
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Post by CM on Jan 19, 2009 21:59:59 GMT -5
….and you kinda pissed me off, I care for more illegal immigrants on a daily basis than you see in a month, I feed a lot of people, I know what it is like. I know what it is like to call home a storm drain. For your information the illegal immigrants I know, think the agents should have shot the drug smuggler between the eyes.
You see, the good guys hate the bad guy, that is the way American wannabees like it. Sometimes field justice is the correct justice and yes go ahead label me, I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT, I WEAR IT PROUDLY.
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