|
Post by jdredd on May 28, 2009 14:59:29 GMT -5
Here is a subject I've had a running argument with a friend for years. I claim the Baby Boomers sold out and have led us to this mess we are in, and he says the Boomers have done great things. Or maybe it's the other way around. I forget. (But of course the generational divisions are arbitrary anyway) Any GEN X'ers out there have anything to say about the Boomers? And what is with this so-called "Millennial Generation"?
|
|
CM
Rookie
Posts: 0
|
Post by CM on May 28, 2009 15:10:21 GMT -5
Define boomers and Gen X
|
|
|
Post by Tired in CV on May 28, 2009 15:37:45 GMT -5
Here is a subject I've had a running argument with a friend for years. I claim the Baby Boomers sold out and have led us to this mess we are in, and he says the Boomers have done great things. Or maybe it's the other way around. I forget. (But of course the generational divisions are arbitrary anyway) Any GEN X'ers out there have anything to say about the Boomers? And what is with this so-called "Millennial Generation"? Let me start out by defining who I believe is the Baby Boomers and who Gen X are. The Baby Boomers were born in the post WWII children up to 1960. The Gen X started about 1960. Now as far as selling out, yes and no. I am going to start out by laying some blame on the "Great Generation"! It was them who forged great changes in this nation and brought us through a World War. Our economy was doing so well and technology was growing so fast that most families started having 2 incomes (husband AND wife) and became financially well off compared to the nation as a whole previously. It is the "Great Generation" who desired the best for their children and with their new found higher incomes, they began the trend of making sure their kids had the best. Often this meant that their children didn't have to work as much. This started the slippery slope of the "me" mentality. Granted, this was the beginning so there were still some kids out there working their butts off. Each following generation just increased the slope of decline towards the "me" mentality. Yes, we have continued to invent and build, but we have not continued even near the same pace as the Great Generation. Much of the advanced technology of today results from foreign progress. We have a lot of wasted production from our citizens and have relied upon foreign workers (legal AND illegal) to make up the difference. Today, what were jobs for teenagers are now full time jobs for foreigners. That has contributed to the problem of entry jobs for our teens. There are only so many McDonald's available! Maybe this isn't what you wanted, but it was what came to mind from your comment.
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on May 28, 2009 16:06:51 GMT -5
Actually it was exactly what I was looking for, Tired. I'll have more to say on it when I have more time.
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on May 29, 2009 10:48:05 GMT -5
I also have some criticisms of the "Greatest Generation" but I'll stick to the Boomers for now. I think one thing that makes the Boomers different from the generation before or those after is the way it broke apart over the Vietnam War and related philosophical differences. It was what I called at one time the Boomer Civil War, or more broadly the Culture War that O'Reilly wrote a book about. I called the two sides the Traditionalists vs the Revolutionaries, O'Reilly called them the Traditionalists vs the Secular Progressives. (Not that any of it was original with either of us) The Traditionalists had the advantage of having the Greatest Generation on their side, as the GGs hated the "hippies" (thought the actual "hippie" era was very short). But to this day Boomers argue about Vietnam (think Swiftboats and Bill Ayers), and will go to their graves arguing, much to the disgust of Gen X'ers, I believe. So who won the Boomer Civil War? Depends who you ask.
Now the Gen Xer's never had that kind of division I don"t think. And they were never rebellious in any way that I can see, they pretty much accepted the Status Quo. I have accused them of being the Generation With Nothing To Say, but I suppose that is uncharitable. I think they related to the Greatest Generation, not to their parents, which is probably normal.
And now we have the children of Gen X growing up, who have been called Gen Y but I guess are now called the Millennial Generation, and being the grandpa of them I of course have no idea what they are all about.
So do I think the Baby Boomers "blew it"? Well, considering they had the disadvantage of being children of prosperity, and we know how bad that is for people, I guess I would have to say "yes and no" like Tired for now. Both Clinton and Bush Jr., our two Baby Boomer presidents, were dismal failures in my book. (Barry was born on the tail end of the Boomers, and anyone who was only seven in 1968 really pretty much missed the Boomer Civil War). Now the Boomers are retiring, and are leaving Gen X a big mess, and probably the current divide we see on these boards are an echo of the Boomer's war...
Sermon over...and yes, these are vast subjective generalizations...
I think I'll hang around this thread to avoid the partisan bickering going on in the other ones...
|
|
|
Post by johng on Jun 3, 2009 20:36:51 GMT -5
JD not so fast... Personal accountability and responsibility (Code words for "every man for himself") are very much at the root of your concern. How many of our Grand children are being taught these ethical and moral values today? Respectfully, I fear say not in your clan because you are so hell bent against the concepts. The Boomer gen also made the technological leap to computers (IBM, Microsoft and Apple) and along with that came this horrible concept that we don't need skilled trades people, we need highly educated college types. (Tired in CV) this is more of a contribution to the need to backfil the jobs at McDonalds than the other things because the skill trades took as many as we could find from McDonalds type jobs and the backfil continued I fear. Vietnam brought us the concept of "Challenge to Authority" because the media so highlighted the "murderous activity" throw in Jane fonda to stir the pot. Clowns like Bill Ayers, (let's not forget Woodstock) you get the drift. Combine the irresponsibility/lack of accountability formula with the desire all parents have for making life better for the kids and Walla you now have modern America! Add in the mentality that "you owe me" and it builds a disasterous formula. So the question is Can we step back in time and undo this or do we just follow the liberalized acadamia process down the tubes? I see the blank stares from my younger employees when the responsibility for their own actions conversation comes up so I fight the good fight everyday. How many of us are? How many will it take?
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on Jun 3, 2009 20:56:05 GMT -5
I know you are no idiot, so your perception of the problem as a lack of personal responsibility is something I have to take into consideration. As I've said, from where I sit the problem seems to be the hyper-individualism that is encouraged by the media and others to keep people as obsessive consumers ("Every man for himself" means politics are a waste of time and hedonism rules). So now the problem for me is to decide if these two views can be reconciled.
|
|
|
Post by johng on Jun 4, 2009 19:47:40 GMT -5
JD,
The "idiot" thing is something that comes and goes for me and trust me I have a few of those days. I can't promise none will get in here and some will likely say all of them have posted with my name on them.
I like playing the evil advocate position and people here make life most interesting for me. Hopefully I leave some fodder for thought as I run amuck?
|
|
|
Post by johng on Jun 4, 2009 19:59:00 GMT -5
Rather than focus so hard on how we got here, lets talk about how we correct the ship before it sinks.
The "ME Gen" is being fed 7 course meals of irresponsibility now. Barrack Obama took full and forceful advantage of this condition to get into office by promising the little fleglings everything imaginable from Stimulus bailouts to universal healthcare and increased salaries with no tax increases under $250,000 which must be the artificial RICH point.
He manipulated the minds via the internet, twitter (presidents can do that) My Space, You Tube and every other pimple domain. He invoked the race card early on and pulled people from the slums to vote who have not earned a paycheck in many years, if ever, and had thugs from the Black Panthers stand guard at the polls to further dilute the vote. (They were found not guilty and released today) I wonder how far under GITMO Bush would be today had he pulled such a stunt...
It is fearful at just how far this can go with an administration that knows its voting block so well and propogates the manipulation process. We can't teach responsibility and accountability when the MAN is just throwing money at them to do just the opposite.
Or maybe when he is finished manipulating he will have Biden sign em all up for the Union to continue the process...
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on Jun 5, 2009 17:44:28 GMT -5
Forgive me while I try to make sense of differing perspectives. John thinks our problems are because of lack of individual responsibility. I have been blaming our problems on individualism (the "me" generation) run amok, that is, every man for himself to an extreme. Putting them together, that would mean everyone is acting in their own behalf, and they are doing it irresponsibly. Is my conclusion correct, or have I misunderstood something?
|
|
|
Post by johng on Jun 5, 2009 18:01:27 GMT -5
YES and when one in Power shines with Total Irresponsibility towards the young and impressionable, then the ME GEN Individualist becomes the Domanent postition thus nothing advances and most if not all things trend in reverse!
So as I ask earlier, How do we fix it?
|
|
|
Post by jdredd on Jun 5, 2009 18:13:26 GMT -5
Working on it, jg.
|
|
|
Post by johng on Jun 5, 2009 18:20:03 GMT -5
I thought I smelled Smoke HAHA
|
|
|
Post by lou on Jun 5, 2009 19:09:30 GMT -5
johng well said (#5), personal responsibility and accountability are concepts no longer understood by subsequent generations. The "it's not my fault" excuse is accepted now as reasonable and reliable and factual. In academe, I can't tell you the countless times I heard this from students who either failed or did poorly and, even sadder, that same refrain echoed by their parents. I also agree that society as a whole has come to "expect" assistance as a charter right found in the Constitution. How many times has O stated that the govt. is here to "help?" "Govt. is going to take care of everything!" So what is left for the individual to do? In this context, nothing except follow the rules govt. dictates. Hopefully enough individuals will awaken to the fact that personal responsibility and accountability will aid them in gaining success.
|
|
|
Post by johng on Jun 5, 2009 19:45:15 GMT -5
Thanks Lou,
I do believe "Rights" come with much "Responsibility" but we have been so far removed from the concept that I fear we can't get back without great action. Tolerance of the "Status Quo" will not work.
|
|